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Vector Drawing Program Suggestions

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Vector Drawing Program Suggestions Kevin Myers 17 Jan 04:46
Vector Drawing Program Suggestions Kevin Myers 17 Jan 10:59
  Vector Drawing Program Suggestions Judy Wilson 17 Jan 13:54
  Vector Drawing Program Suggestions Anthony Thyssen 20 Jan 02:50
Vector Drawing Program Suggestions Kevin Myers 17 Jan 11:54
Vector Drawing Program Suggestions Kevin Myers 17 Jan 11:57
  Vector Drawing Program Suggestions John Culleton 19 Jan 23:57
200301171026.LAA53207@pierr... 07 Oct 20:15
Kevin Myers
2003-01-17 04:46:15 UTC (over 17 years ago)

Vector Drawing Program Suggestions

Hi folks,

I'm looking to purchase or download a combined vector drawing and bitmap image editing program, and was hoping that some of you might care to offer some suggestions. My primary use for this program would be to overlay layers consisting primarily of various text, simple shapes, and freehand lines on top of scanned images of hardcopy maps. Requirements that I have are as follows:

1. Runs under Windows. 2. Reasonably simple to learn and use. 3. Allows simple editing of bitmap images including cropping, rotating, flipping, resizing (including different scale factors on each axis), and some color manipulations.
4. Handles LARGE images (preferably exceeding 32K pixel limits per dimension).
5. Supports multiple layers, and the ability to enable/disable individual layers for printing.
6. Provides simple vector graphic object drawing tools, including shapes, text, freehand curves, color fills, and object grouping. 7. Provides manipulation capabilities for all objects such as rotating, flipping, resizing, and color and transparency changes. 8. Allows programmatic creation and manipulation of images via scripts that can be created as simple ASCII files. 9. Handles both large format hardcopy devices and output tiling, along with the ability to select a specifc portion of the image and scale for printing.

Previously, I have tried using a number of different applications, and haven't been impressed with any of them. Among others, I've tried Jasc's Paint Shop Pro 7 and several different CAD programs, including a fairly recent AutoCAD release. I have primarily actually used Corel Draw 10. But all of these seem to come up short, primarily in 2 areeas: 1) ease of learning and use, and 2) image size limitations.

My typical work flow goes something like this where the graphics that I want to produce are concerned:

1. Scan in raw images, most line art, but some grayscale or color, many up to E size or even larger. Minimum resolution that I use is 200 dpi, but most documents scanned from 300 to 800 dpi, depending on the potential need to blow up the image to a larger scale and still retain decent resolution. 2. Sometimes stitch together images from multiple scans, which requires very precise control over image rotation, especially for larger images. 3. Clean up, rotate, resize, and crop scanned images. 4. Create simple symbols as compount objects to be reused in map layers for common features.
5. Create multiple map layers using vector based objects, including text, simple shapes, color fills, and grouped objects, some with transparency. 6. Select a specific portion and desired scale for the final map that I want printed (Corel Draw is particularly awkward at this) then print it on either a large format inkjet plotter (up to 54" width by essentially unlimited length), or on a smaller inkjet printer than can handle paper sizes up to 17" x 44". When printing on the smaller printer, we often print maps on 11" x 17" paper that are too large to fit on a single page, so the software must have output tiling capabilities.
7. Enable/disable various layers, change map portions or scales, and print again until all desired maps have been created. 8. Sometimes I will want to script some of this process, and I may want to use an unrelated external program to help generate the necessary script.

Both Corel Draw and a number of the other programs that I have tried do have most of the capabilities that I need, with the primary exception of undesirable image size restrictions (typically 32K or 64K pixels per dimension). However, I have not found any of these programs very easy to use so far. I especially find Corel Draw's user interface to be particularly cluttered, confusing, and difficult to use. My usage pattern with these graphics is to do very intense work over the space of several weeks, then to not use the program again for perhaps several months. During this intervening time, I forget all of the essoteric nuances that are necessary to get the job done using these programs, and seems like I have to learn them all over again each time. This is especially true since I use a large number of other highly complex programs in my work, all of which have different ways of doing things.

Can anyone help me out here with some good recommendations? Thanks!

s/KAM

P.S. - Public domain, freeware, shareware, or inexpensive applications preferered, but I'd consider almost anything.

Kevin Myers
2003-01-17 10:59:56 UTC (over 17 years ago)

Vector Drawing Program Suggestions

Hey guys,

Listen, I hate to follow up my own post, but I need to save some of you some time...

A number of you are trying to help me out with some suggestions with regard to my prior request, and I do really appreciate that. However, most of the suggestions that I am receiving so far are for programs such as Photoshop and the GIMP that do NOT do vector/object oriented graphcis at all. Such programs are purely bitmapped image editors, and even though they may have some very nice drawing, editing, and other image manipulation capabilities, they won't meet the needs that I am looking for here. In addition, Photoshop has a maximum limit of 32K pixels in either the horizontal or vertical dimension of an image, which I would prefer to avoid. The GIMP doesn't have a similar pixel count limitation (fortunately!!!), but again it is only a bitmapped image editor, not a vector graphics program (unless I am seriously missing something).

I know that I posted these questions to a couple of lists that primarily deal with bitmapped graphics, but I was hoping that some of you out there might also have some experience with vector and hybrid applications as well. Basically, if you don't know what I'm talking about here, then it probably isn't worth your time to reply. But I appreciate all of the good intentions anyway!

Regards,
s/KAM

----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Myers"
To: "gimp users" ; "gimpwin users"
; "ImageMagick Users"

Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 9:46 PM Subject: Vector Drawing Program Suggestions

Hi folks,

I'm looking to purchase or download a combined vector drawing and bitmap image editing program, and was hoping that some of you might care to offer some suggestions. My primary use for this program would be to overlay layers consisting primarily of various text, simple shapes, and freehand lines on top of scanned images of hardcopy maps. Requirements that I have are as follows:

1. Runs under Windows. 2. Reasonably simple to learn and use. 3. Allows simple editing of bitmap images including cropping, rotating, flipping, resizing (including different scale factors on each axis), and some color manipulations.
4. Handles LARGE images (preferably exceeding 32K pixel limits per dimension).
5. Supports multiple layers, and the ability to enable/disable individual layers for printing.
6. Provides simple vector graphic object drawing tools, including shapes, text, freehand curves, color fills, and object grouping. 7. Provides manipulation capabilities for all objects such as rotating, flipping, resizing, and color and transparency changes. 8. Allows programmatic creation and manipulation of images via scripts

that

can be created as simple ASCII files. 9. Handles both large format hardcopy devices and output tiling, along

with

the ability to select a specifc portion of the image and scale for

printing.

Previously, I have tried using a number of different applications, and haven't been impressed with any of them. Among others, I've tried Jasc's Paint Shop Pro 7 and several different CAD programs, including a fairly recent AutoCAD release. I have primarily actually used Corel Draw 10.

But

all of these seem to come up short, primarily in 2 areeas: 1) ease of learning and use, and 2) image size limitations.

My typical work flow goes something like this where the graphics that I

want

to produce are concerned:

1. Scan in raw images, most line art, but some grayscale or color, many up to E size or even larger. Minimum resolution that I use is 200 dpi, but most documents scanned from 300 to 800 dpi, depending on the potential

need

to blow up the image to a larger scale and still retain decent resolution. 2. Sometimes stitch together images from multiple scans, which requires

very

precise control over image rotation, especially for larger images. 3. Clean up, rotate, resize, and crop scanned images. 4. Create simple symbols as compount objects to be reused in map layers

for

common features.
5. Create multiple map layers using vector based objects, including text, simple shapes, color fills, and grouped objects, some with transparency. 6. Select a specific portion and desired scale for the final map that I

want

printed (Corel Draw is particularly awkward at this) then print it on

either

a large format inkjet plotter (up to 54" width by essentially unlimited length), or on a smaller inkjet printer than can handle paper sizes up to 17" x 44". When printing on the smaller printer, we often print maps on

11"

x 17" paper that are too large to fit on a single page, so the software

must

have output tiling capabilities.
7. Enable/disable various layers, change map portions or scales, and print again until all desired maps have been created. 8. Sometimes I will want to script some of this process, and I may want to use an unrelated external program to help generate the necessary script.

Both Corel Draw and a number of the other programs that I have tried do

have

most of the capabilities that I need, with the primary exception of undesirable image size restrictions (typically 32K or 64K pixels per dimension). However, I have not found any of these programs very easy to use so far. I especially find Corel Draw's user interface to be particularly cluttered, confusing, and difficult to use. My usage pattern with these graphics is to do very intense work over the space of several weeks, then to not use the program again for perhaps several months.

During

this intervening time, I forget all of the essoteric nuances that are necessary to get the job done using these programs, and seems like I have

to

learn them all over again each time. This is especially true since I use

a

large number of other highly complex programs in my work, all of which

have

different ways of doing things.

Can anyone help me out here with some good recommendations? Thanks!

s/KAM

P.S. - Public domain, freeware, shareware, or inexpensive applications preferered, but I'd consider almost anything.

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Kevin Myers
2003-01-17 11:54:08 UTC (over 17 years ago)

Vector Drawing Program Suggestions

Hi Olivier,

Thanks for the suggestion. I took a quick look, and xfig seems pretty decent in many ways. However, it looks like it may have a couple of printing limitations that might not meet my needs:

1. I don't see any option for easily printing only a selected portion of a drawing.
2. Printing appears to be limited to a maximum of E size pages for output. 3. I couldn't quickly locate a version that runs under Windows.

I'm sure that you can probably crop a drawing to create a new one, and it appears that xfig can probably tile to multiple E size pages if necessary. But either of those options would be very awkward for my typical usage. Do you happen to know if xfig can handle these needs more gracefully in ways that weren't apparant through my quick glance at the docs?

Thanks again, Kevin M.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Olivier Lecarme"
To: "Kevin Myers"
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 4:26 AM Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] Re: Vector Drawing Program Suggestions

My own favorite vector drawing program is Xfig. See it at www.xfig.org.

--

Olivier Lecarme

Kevin Myers
2003-01-17 11:57:09 UTC (over 17 years ago)

Vector Drawing Program Suggestions

Hi Fred,

I haven't tried any of those yet, though have received several other similar suggestions. My first question would be whether I can get a decent version of any of them that will run under Windoze. If so, then I'll take a closer look. Thanks.

Kevin M.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Bazolo"
To: "Kevin Myers"
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 4:45 AM Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] Re: Vector Drawing Program Suggestions

On Friday 17 January 2003 04:59, Kevin Myers wrote:

Hey guys,

Listen, I hate to follow up my own post, but I need to save some of you some time...

A number of you are trying to help me out with some suggestions with

regard

to my prior request, and I do really appreciate that. However, most of

the

suggestions that I am receiving so far are for programs such as Photoshop and the GIMP that do NOT do vector/object oriented graphcis at all. Such programs are purely bitmapped image editors, and even though they may have some very nice drawing, editing, and other image manipulation

capabilities,

they won't meet the needs that I am looking for here. In addition, Photoshop has a maximum limit of 32K pixels in either the horizontal or vertical dimension of an image, which I would prefer to avoid. The GIMP doesn't have a similar pixel count limitation (fortunately!!!), but again it is only a bitmapped image editor, not a vector graphics program (unless I am seriously missing something).

I know that I posted these questions to a couple of lists that primarily deal with bitmapped graphics, but I was hoping that some of you out there might also have some experience with vector and hybrid applications as well. Basically, if you don't know what I'm talking about here, then it probably isn't worth your time to reply. But I appreciate all of the good intentions anyway!

Regards,
s/KAM

Hey Kevin,

This seems too obvious but I have to ask anyway: have you checked out the vector programs like "Kontour" (part of the KDE thing), "Sketch", and the vector drawing utility that comes with Staroffice or Openoffice? I haven't checked for the limits that concern you but I do use these for vector based stuff and they work pretty well. I don't use any Microsoft stuff and haven't in quite awhile now, so I don't know if there are Windows versions of "Kontour" or "Sketch", but there are for Staroffice and Openoffice.

Fred

Judy Wilson
2003-01-17 13:54:04 UTC (over 17 years ago)

Vector Drawing Program Suggestions

Sounds like you want a aircraft that has all the capabilities of a jetfighter and a cargo carrier but is as easy to drive as a car :-). However, if I had this task, I think I could do it with a combination of the the Gimp and OpenOffice.org Draw, which with my experience has almost all the capabilities of Corel Draw, a vector program. We use them together all the time. And both are available for Windows and are open source. Upgrades would cost you nothing; BTW the current version of OpenOffice.org is 1.0.1 but 1.0.2 is due out any day now. Don't let the version number scare you off... OOo is essentially the same as Sun's StarOffice 6.

We've grown to appreciate the Unix way of creating programs that do a more limited set of tasks but do them well. Open source programmers are more inclined to make their applications easier rather then more difficult to be used with other programs.

If your requirements are to have both in the same program, you are going to be extremely limited in what your choices are. OpenOffice.org Draw handles a surprising number of bitmap tasks, but it's so simple to use the Gimp with Draw that I don't see the problem.

* Kevin Myers [030117 04:29]:

A number of you are trying to help me out with some suggestions with regard to my prior request, and I do really appreciate that. However, most of the suggestions that I am receiving so far are for programs such as Photoshop and the GIMP that do NOT do vector/object oriented graphcis at all. Such programs are purely bitmapped image editors, and even though they may have some very nice drawing, editing, and other image manipulation capabilities, they won't meet the needs that I am looking for here. In addition, Photoshop has a maximum limit of 32K pixels in either the horizontal or vertical dimension of an image, which I would prefer to avoid. The GIMP doesn't have a similar pixel count limitation (fortunately!!!), but again it is only a bitmapped image editor, not a vector graphics program (unless I am seriously missing something).

I know that I posted these questions to a couple of lists that primarily deal with bitmapped graphics, but I was hoping that some of you out there might also have some experience with vector and hybrid applications as well. Basically, if you don't know what I'm talking about here, then it probably isn't worth your time to reply. But I appreciate all of the good intentions anyway!

Regards,
s/KAM

----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Myers"
To: "gimp users" ; "gimpwin users"
; "ImageMagick Users"

Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 9:46 PM Subject: Vector Drawing Program Suggestions

Hi folks,

I'm looking to purchase or download a combined vector drawing and bitmap image editing program, and was hoping that some of you might care to offer some suggestions. My primary use for this program would be to overlay layers consisting primarily of various text, simple shapes, and freehand lines on top of scanned images of hardcopy maps. Requirements that I have are as follows:

1. Runs under Windows. 2. Reasonably simple to learn and use. 3. Allows simple editing of bitmap images including cropping, rotating, flipping, resizing (including different scale factors on each axis), and some color manipulations.
4. Handles LARGE images (preferably exceeding 32K pixel limits per dimension).
5. Supports multiple layers, and the ability to enable/disable individual layers for printing.
6. Provides simple vector graphic object drawing tools, including shapes, text, freehand curves, color fills, and object grouping. 7. Provides manipulation capabilities for all objects such as rotating, flipping, resizing, and color and transparency changes. 8. Allows programmatic creation and manipulation of images via scripts

that

can be created as simple ASCII files. 9. Handles both large format hardcopy devices and output tiling, along

with

the ability to select a specifc portion of the image and scale for

printing.

Previously, I have tried using a number of different applications, and haven't been impressed with any of them. Among others, I've tried Jasc's Paint Shop Pro 7 and several different CAD programs, including a fairly recent AutoCAD release. I have primarily actually used Corel Draw 10.

But

all of these seem to come up short, primarily in 2 areeas: 1) ease of learning and use, and 2) image size limitations.

My typical work flow goes something like this where the graphics that I

want

to produce are concerned:

1. Scan in raw images, most line art, but some grayscale or color, many up to E size or even larger. Minimum resolution that I use is 200 dpi, but most documents scanned from 300 to 800 dpi, depending on the potential

need

to blow up the image to a larger scale and still retain decent resolution. 2. Sometimes stitch together images from multiple scans, which requires

very

precise control over image rotation, especially for larger images. 3. Clean up, rotate, resize, and crop scanned images. 4. Create simple symbols as compount objects to be reused in map layers

for

common features.
5. Create multiple map layers using vector based objects, including text, simple shapes, color fills, and grouped objects, some with transparency. 6. Select a specific portion and desired scale for the final map that I

want

printed (Corel Draw is particularly awkward at this) then print it on

either

a large format inkjet plotter (up to 54" width by essentially unlimited length), or on a smaller inkjet printer than can handle paper sizes up to 17" x 44". When printing on the smaller printer, we often print maps on

11"

x 17" paper that are too large to fit on a single page, so the software

must

have output tiling capabilities.
7. Enable/disable various layers, change map portions or scales, and print again until all desired maps have been created. 8. Sometimes I will want to script some of this process, and I may want to use an unrelated external program to help generate the necessary script.

Both Corel Draw and a number of the other programs that I have tried do

have

most of the capabilities that I need, with the primary exception of undesirable image size restrictions (typically 32K or 64K pixels per dimension). However, I have not found any of these programs very easy to use so far. I especially find Corel Draw's user interface to be particularly cluttered, confusing, and difficult to use. My usage pattern with these graphics is to do very intense work over the space of several weeks, then to not use the program again for perhaps several months.

During

this intervening time, I forget all of the essoteric nuances that are necessary to get the job done using these programs, and seems like I have

to

learn them all over again each time. This is especially true since I use

a

large number of other highly complex programs in my work, all of which

have

different ways of doing things.

Can anyone help me out here with some good recommendations? Thanks!

s/KAM

P.S. - Public domain, freeware, shareware, or inexpensive applications preferered, but I'd consider almost anything.

_______________________________________________ Gimp-user mailing list
Gimp-user@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu
http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user

John Culleton
2003-01-19 23:57:59 UTC (over 17 years ago)

Vector Drawing Program Suggestions

On Friday 17 January 2003 10:57, Kevin Myers wrote:

Hi Fred,

I haven't tried any of those yet, though have received several other similar suggestions. My first question would be whether I can get a decent version of any of them that will run under Windoze. If so, then I'll take a closer look. Thanks.

Kevin M.

Two suggestions:

Out of the world of TeX came Metafont whigh begat Metapost which in consort with Context (a TeX variant) created a vector dawing facility called Metafun. You could visit
http://www.pragma-ade.nl and download the manual for a looksee.

If you find that Windoze constricts your choices then set up a Linux partition on a second disk drive (they are cheap) and explore a broader range of options.

John Culleton Able Indexers and Typesetters
Rowse Reviews
Culleton Editorial Services
http://wexfordpress.com

Anthony Thyssen
2003-01-20 02:50:14 UTC (over 17 years ago)

Vector Drawing Program Suggestions

"Kevin Myers" on wrote...
| Hey guys,
|
| Listen, I hate to follow up my own post, but I need to save some of you some | time...
|
| A number of you are trying to help me out with some suggestions with regard | to my prior request, and I do really appreciate that. However, most of the | suggestions that I am receiving so far are for programs such as Photoshop | and the GIMP that do NOT do vector/object oriented graphcis at all. Such | programs are purely bitmapped image editors, and even though they may have | some very nice drawing, editing, and other image manipulation capabilities, | they won't meet the needs that I am looking for here. In addition, | Photoshop has a maximum limit of 32K pixels in either the horizontal or | vertical dimension of an image, which I would prefer to avoid. The GIMP | doesn't have a similar pixel count limitation (fortunately!!!), but again it | is only a bitmapped image editor, not a vector graphics program (unless I am | seriously missing something).
|
| I know that I posted these questions to a couple of lists that primarily | deal with bitmapped graphics, but I was hoping that some of you out there | might also have some experience with vector and hybrid applications as well. | Basically, if you don't know what I'm talking about here, then it probably | isn't worth your time to reply. But I appreciate all of the good intentions | anyway!
|
| Regards,
| s/KAM
|

In my wanderings of the web however I came accross a program you may also be interested in...
AutoTrace - converts bitmap to vector graphics (both windows and linux) http://autotrace.sourceforge.net/

This takes a bitmap image (like a letter in a font) and generates the vectors needed to make it a vector object. What you may be moreinterested in however is the formats it generates, as that should give you pointers to the programs that use those formats..

formats.. wmf, cdr, cmx, compressed pdf, compressed svg and dxf with splines

Look down the page for "Vector drawing applications" Quite a list both comercial and open source vector applications.

My own choice of Vector editor (for X windows and UNIX) is... Xfig

I have used it for 15 years and it is still a great object editor. Its file format is also simple and so well defined I often have programs generate vector images to then convert to images of the input data.

It is a 2D editor (not bitmap/image, though can use bitmap/images as objects and fill patterns) but objects can occupy various depths (a complex object can actually occupy multiple depths, interacting appropriatly with other objects at simular depths)

My only wish for it is for it to expand, at least simply, into a 3D object world. Some people howver have converted 'depths' into height levels for soem 3d construction, particularly for architectural plan drawings, for virtual world creation.

Anthony Thyssen ( System Programmer ) http://www.sct.gu.edu.au/~anthony/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- `` Mr. Worf, scan that ship. '' `` Aye, Captain... 300 DPI? '' ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anthony's Home is his Castle http://www.sct.gu.edu.au/~anthony/