Sign up now! · Forgot password?
RSS/Atom feed Twitter

MacOS

This discussion is connected to the gimp-user-list.gnome.org mailing list which is provided by the GIMP developers and not related to gimpusers.com.

6 of 13 messages available
Toggle history

Please log in to manage your subscriptions.

MacOS Maurizio Loreti via gimp-user-list 24 Apr 06:15
  CAFgjPJ_v5tKdfPNAWXqQNz3QzH... 24 Apr 17:35
   CANQs7dCSuS+rGU02rPGd4L5a-c... 24 Apr 18:55
    CAFgjPJ8gEO_T1fYbNkZ+bkMQ84... 24 Apr 19:20
     CANQs7dAA2H8wqVntR7jenTtBFF... 24 Apr 19:52
      CAFgjPJ8ybwOT5dkktoXsGSVK55... 24 Apr 20:09
       CANQs7dBcii_FNGTQeU1r663U_x... 24 Apr 20:11
        CAFgjPJ9jP-v=mH-w7yV4GauDbu... 18 May 16:37
         MacOS Tres Finocchiaro via gimp-user-list 18 May 16:37
          MacOS Jehan Pagès via gimp-user-list 18 May 18:00
           MacOS Tres Finocchiaro via gimp-user-list 18 May 18:35
  MacOS Dawas1937 28 Apr 09:47
   MacOS Dawas1937 30 Apr 05:58
Maurizio Loreti via gimp-user-list
2020-04-24 06:15:52 UTC (about 1 month ago)

MacOS

Any foresight for an implementation of GIMP 2.10.18 for MacOS? [I mean official, not MacPorts (that uses XQuartz) nor Partha's].

If GIMP has problems with MacOS, what are these problems?

Maurizio Loreti  --  Maurizio.Loreti@gmail.com
Dawas1937
2020-04-28 09:47:23 UTC (about 1 month ago)

MacOS

I really interested in technology and that post is really helpful or company in their website for getting information and interaction with different businessman. If you are students then check https://onlineessayswritingservice.com/do-my-essay/ and get more this to complete their thesis work. It has many slots with different topics. You can join them freely on given website

Dawas1937
2020-04-30 05:58:17 UTC (about 1 month ago)

MacOS

I am a big fan that type of post. Because they always gave us some lessons. But you need to visit https://casinobonuscoupon.com/coupon-category/slots-casino-bonus/ to spend your free time with great casino games. The reason behind i lie there trailers before watching movies. Because trailer catches our attention and forced us to watch the historical movie

Tres Finocchiaro via gimp-user-list
2020-05-18 16:37:28 UTC (17 days ago)

MacOS

I see some new patches arriving which suggests there's some new activity on the Mac port (SDK 10.9 -> 10.10), etc. I'll jump on the developer list as suggested although from what I'm seeing there's -- what appears to be -- progress so it'll be more for the purposes of familiarizing with the build system in the event my assistance is needed.

- Tres.Finocchiaro@gmail.com

On Sat, Apr 25, 2020 at 3:14 PM Jehan Pagès wrote:

Hi,

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 10:09 PM Tres Finocchiaro < tres.finocchiaro@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks for the info. I'll comb the CI in the next week looking for the download. Circle-CI recently changed it's retention policy so if I need to re-fire a build, I'll jump on IRC and introduce myself.

Note, I only use IRC as-needed since it requires an always-on connection or cralwing service to read backlogs, but I'm not afraid to jump on.

Also, I'm a pretty big fan of Gimp. Switched to it exclusively for raster about 12 years ago, I'm also the one that whistleblew Sourceforge on their BS, getting this junkware removed: https://slashdot.org/submission/4471377/sf-says-adware-bundled-with-gimp-is-intentional

Anyway, I'll start diving into the CI this next week and post any high-level progress here. I realize I'm on the user's list (and that's OK) but I'll try to be kind as to not overwhelm it with dev-related convo. :D

Didn't realize this was the user list. Maybe we can continue the discussion in the developer list instead (to subscribe, if not already: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list) and/or IRC of course.

Jehan

-Tres

- Tres.Finocchiaro@gmail.com

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 3:52 PM Jehan Pagès wrote:

Hi!

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 9:19 PM Tres Finocchiaro < tres.finocchiaro@gmail.com> wrote:

he had issues with the new "hardening" rules of macOS

Although I'm very familiar with notarization and stapling , the hardened runtimes
require a much deeper understanding of C++, so my efforts would likely be futile.

Normally our builds now are notarized, signed and whatnot (I understand there are several security layers?) nowadays. We use the Apple ID of GNOME (contact Neil McGovern). If needed at some point, we can put you in contact.

I see the build system is 10.9+ (notarization requires a minimum of 10.9, so this is good) however in my experience, the dependencies are a nightmare when targeting older macOSs. My strategy has been to chain a bunch of custom steps
although
I'm curious how this is done using Gimp. At a glance, it appears (perhaps) the dependency listing is simpler. I see a macos-specific gtk script, that must be doing a lot of the work.

Yeah it's based on: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk-osx Alex had a GIMP-specific fork:
https://gitlab.gnome.org/samm-git/gtk-osx/tree/gimp But it's all written in the README, so you probably read it already.

As for the minimum system, initially we were targetting 10.10+ (we try to not support OS even unsupported by their developers, i.e. here Apple. And actually even 10.10 is not supported anymore by now, according to Wikipedia). Cf.
https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gimp/-/blob/gimp-2-10/devel-docs/os-support.txt But (if I recall) Alex was saying that supporting 10.9 was not much more difficult so we kept as-is at least until things ended up impossible (in which case we'd bump up the requirement).

There is also the fact that each time we drop support for an older Windows or macOS, we get a lot of hate from people. Of course this doesn't stop us but still. Let's say that if we have no reason to break support (i.e. doesn't make our life harder), why do it? ???? This being said, if our macOS contributor(s) consider that we have to drop support of old version X or Y of macOS for whatever good reason, we'll just do it. The doers are basically maintainers of their own part. ????

I spot some similarities, such as upstream bugs with otool tools , leveraging a 3rd
party dmg creator (I've used
app-dmg instead) but at a glance, the build system appears to be completely automated including signing and notarizing.

I think it is, since I can see steps "Importing signing certificate", "Creating DMG package" and "Notarizing DMG package" in the CI.

If testing the installer is the next steps before publishing, I can offer that by fetching the URL from the CI logs.

I indeed know the DMG is made available on CircleCI and can be downloaded in the "Artifacts" tab of builds. Maybe you'd need an account to see this, no idea. Do you see the DMG link?

I'm only a casual Gimp user though, so I'd be weary of passing a build as good on instinct alone. Do you have a QC spreadsheet or is it more of a best-effort basis?

To be clear, we have no idea. If this is not in the repository, it means that either Alex had not documented it (yet?) or it was just in his head. He has been the only one working on GIMP on macOS for like the last 2 years (and before him, we had another contributor who was also alone for many years; it seems we never manage to get more than 1 macOS dev at a time! ????).

I guess you could start creating a QC steps howto and contribute it to the repo once you are done. :-)

Sorry to not be of much help, but this is just how much we know nothing macOS-related.

Alex's notes are stellar btw.

Nice to read. He did put a lot of time and effort on this. We are extremely thankful to him (and to any contributor for that matter!).

Note, I use Gimp on macOS Catalina Developer Beta so I'll know right

away if the app or a particular feature is blocked and I'm more likely to have stricter (beta) hardening as Apple makes changes to the OS.

Cool. :-)

Jehan

-Tres

- Tres.Finocchiaro@gmail.com

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 2:55 PM Jehan Pagès wrote:

Hi Tres,

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 7:34 PM Tres Finocchiaro < tres.finocchiaro@gmail.com> wrote:

Jehan,

I'm the macOS packager for LMMS. I might be able to help out in his absence. LMMS is written in Qt, so the dependency stack is much different than Gimp which is Gtk, but if there's a documented build process via MacPorts or Homebrew, I can take a swing at it.

I know there are non-official MacPorts and Homebrew because it's written on our website. So these can be good references indeed.

Ideally we want the build scripts to be public and the build itself to also be public (not happen on someone's computer for obvious reasons). This is why Alex (our macOS contributor) has done a lot of work on the build repository: https://gitlab.gnome.org/Infrastructure/gimp-macos-build It would be nice if continuing work were to happen on this same repository.

As for the build itself, it was happening on some CI service called CircleCI (because macOS builds can be done there, unlike the GNOME Gitlab CI machines). Builds are there:
https://circleci.com/gh/GNOME/gimp-macos-build

Note: you'll notice that there are builds for GIMP 2.10.18 there, which was from last time Alex was working on it. We don't really know the state and in particular if these builds done 2 months ago work well and safely, since none of us (but Alex) even has an Apple machine so we cannot test and won't recklessly make public completely untested DMG packages.

Last we heard from Alex, he had issues with the new "hardening" rules of macOS. Basically it made it impossible to run a debugger (lldb), which is what GIMP tries to do to self-debug when it crashes or encounter critical errors (a debug feature introduced in GIMP 2.10). I'm not sure he actually fixed it before going off-radar. If he didn't and the solution is too complicated, a possibility is to not care about this self-debugging feature of course. It's annoying if it doesn't work (because it makes reporting/fixing bugs easier), but it is better to have a package without the feature than none obviously. :-)

In any case, we will definitely welcome the help. Feel free to look at the scripts and propose patches/merge requests. I'm not sure if an access is needed to CircleCI project to see the build details (artifacts, logs and whatnot). Maybe just connecting with a github account is enough. If not, we'll try to figure this out.

Oh and last thing, if you have questions, the #gimp IRC channel on irc.gimp.org is a good place where you can find most developers. Thanks!

Jehan

Credentials: https://github.com/LMMS/lmms/pull/2271

-Tres

- Tres.Finocchiaro@gmail.com

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 1:11 PM Jehan Pagès via gimp-user-list < gimp-user-list@gnome.org> wrote:

Hello,

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 8:16 AM Maurizio Loreti via gimp-user-list < gimp-user-list@gnome.org> wrote:

Any foresight for an implementation of GIMP 2.10.18 for MacOS? [I

mean

official, not MacPorts (that uses XQuartz) nor Partha's].

Isn't it you who already asked at least twice the same thing? The answer is
still the same as we told you several times already. Our (unique!) macOS
contributor has not been available for like more than a month. And to be
fair, I don't care as much about the macOS version of GIMP as I am worried
about this contributor and hoping he (and his family) is still fine as we
get no news.

Since you knew already about the situation, a bit of compassion would not
be a bad thing.

If GIMP has problems with MacOS, what are these problems?

Isn't *no contributor* enough of a problem by itself? The problem is that
nobody seem to care enough to help this package happen (only enough to
**ask** for it apparently). We have called for contributors so many times
over the years (and again recently, so much there has even been a French
specialized mac-news website who relayed the call a few weeks ago!). This contributor could be you if you want to help packaging! The current version of scripts are there: https://gitlab.gnome.org/Infrastructure/gimp-macos-build

There are only 3 possible outcomes: 1/ This contributor finally comes back and he continues *alone* ???? to do
all the mac packaging.
2/ Other people finally show they care by contributing. 3/ A mix of 1/ and 2/ which is the best outcome!

In none of these scenarios just asking without contributing helps in any
way.
Thanks for either helping or understanding. ????

Jehan

--
Maurizio Loreti -- Maurizio.Loreti@gmail.com _______________________________________________ gimp-user-list mailing list
List address: gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership:

https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list

List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list

--
ZeMarmot open animation film
http://film.zemarmot.net
Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/ Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot Tipeee: https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot _______________________________________________ gimp-user-list mailing list
List address: gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership:
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list

--
ZeMarmot open animation film
http://film.zemarmot.net
Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/ Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot Tipeee: https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot

--
ZeMarmot open animation film
http://film.zemarmot.net
Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/ Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot Tipeee: https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot

--
ZeMarmot open animation film
http://film.zemarmot.net
Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/ Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot Tipeee: https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot

Jehan Pagès via gimp-user-list
2020-05-18 18:00:28 UTC (17 days ago)

MacOS

Hi!

On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 6:37 PM Tres Finocchiaro wrote:

I see some new patches arriving which suggests there's some new activity on the Mac port (SDK 10.9 -> 10.10), etc. I'll jump on the developer list as suggested although from what I'm seeing there's -- what appears to be -- progress so it'll be more for the purposes of familiarizing with the build system in the event my assistance is needed.

The patches you see are only in a single test branch which I created for someone who also wants to get familiarized with the build system, just like you. This being in a branch of the official repo (not master yet though) allows to get real builds on the CI service (which is otherwise a paid service).

You are still very welcome to help, and I can even make you a test branch if you want as well (or you can work on the same test branch with this other contributor). If you come on the IRC channel (#gimp on irc.gimp.org), you can also discuss with this new contributor (nickname "Benitoite", and "Jehan" for me). The more people the better. This brings redundancy if ever any of us needs to get a bit off-record for a bit (which is perfectly ok, people have lives) so that we don't end up again in the same situation with no package maintainer for months.

Jehan

- Tres.Finocchiaro@gmail.com

On Sat, Apr 25, 2020 at 3:14 PM Jehan Pagès wrote:

Hi,

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 10:09 PM Tres Finocchiaro < tres.finocchiaro@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks for the info. I'll comb the CI in the next week looking for the download. Circle-CI recently changed it's retention policy so if I need to re-fire a build, I'll jump on IRC and introduce myself.

Note, I only use IRC as-needed since it requires an always-on connection or cralwing service to read backlogs, but I'm not afraid to jump on.

Also, I'm a pretty big fan of Gimp. Switched to it exclusively for raster about 12 years ago, I'm also the one that whistleblew Sourceforge on their BS, getting this junkware removed: https://slashdot.org/submission/4471377/sf-says-adware-bundled-with-gimp-is-intentional

Anyway, I'll start diving into the CI this next week and post any high-level progress here. I realize I'm on the user's list (and that's OK) but I'll try to be kind as to not overwhelm it with dev-related convo. :D

Didn't realize this was the user list. Maybe we can continue the discussion in the developer list instead (to subscribe, if not already: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list) and/or IRC of course.

Jehan

-Tres

- Tres.Finocchiaro@gmail.com

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 3:52 PM Jehan Pagès wrote:

Hi!

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 9:19 PM Tres Finocchiaro < tres.finocchiaro@gmail.com> wrote:

he had issues with the new "hardening" rules of macOS

Although I'm very familiar with notarization and stapling , the hardened runtimes
require a much deeper understanding of C++, so my efforts would likely be futile.

Normally our builds now are notarized, signed and whatnot (I understand there are several security layers?) nowadays. We use the Apple ID of GNOME (contact Neil McGovern). If needed at some point, we can put you in contact.

I see the build system is 10.9+ (notarization requires a minimum of 10.9, so this is good) however in my experience, the dependencies are a nightmare when targeting older macOSs. My strategy has been to chain a bunch of custom steps
although
I'm curious how this is done using Gimp. At a glance, it appears (perhaps) the dependency listing is simpler. I see a macos-specific gtk script, that must be doing a lot of the work.

Yeah it's based on: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk-osx Alex had a GIMP-specific fork:
https://gitlab.gnome.org/samm-git/gtk-osx/tree/gimp But it's all written in the README, so you probably read it already.

As for the minimum system, initially we were targetting 10.10+ (we try to not support OS even unsupported by their developers, i.e. here Apple. And actually even 10.10 is not supported anymore by now, according to Wikipedia). Cf.
https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gimp/-/blob/gimp-2-10/devel-docs/os-support.txt But (if I recall) Alex was saying that supporting 10.9 was not much more difficult so we kept as-is at least until things ended up impossible (in which case we'd bump up the requirement).

There is also the fact that each time we drop support for an older Windows or macOS, we get a lot of hate from people. Of course this doesn't stop us but still. Let's say that if we have no reason to break support (i.e. doesn't make our life harder), why do it? ???? This being said, if our macOS contributor(s) consider that we have to drop support of old version X or Y of macOS for whatever good reason, we'll just do it. The doers are basically maintainers of their own part. ????

I spot some similarities, such as upstream bugs with otool tools , leveraging a 3rd
party dmg creator (I've
used app-dmg instead) but at a glance, the build system appears to be completely automated including signing and notarizing.

I think it is, since I can see steps "Importing signing certificate", "Creating DMG package" and "Notarizing DMG package" in the CI.

If testing the installer is the next steps before publishing, I can offer that by fetching the URL from the CI logs.

I indeed know the DMG is made available on CircleCI and can be downloaded in the "Artifacts" tab of builds. Maybe you'd need an account to see this, no idea. Do you see the DMG link?

I'm only a casual Gimp user though, so I'd be weary of passing a build as good on instinct alone. Do you have a QC spreadsheet or is it more of a best-effort basis?

To be clear, we have no idea. If this is not in the repository, it means that either Alex had not documented it (yet?) or it was just in his head. He has been the only one working on GIMP on macOS for like the last 2 years (and before him, we had another contributor who was also alone for many years; it seems we never manage to get more than 1 macOS dev at a time! ????).

I guess you could start creating a QC steps howto and contribute it to the repo once you are done. :-)

Sorry to not be of much help, but this is just how much we know nothing macOS-related.

Alex's notes are stellar btw.

Nice to read. He did put a lot of time and effort on this. We are extremely thankful to him (and to any contributor for that matter!).

Note, I use Gimp on macOS Catalina Developer Beta so I'll know right

away if the app or a particular feature is blocked and I'm more likely to have stricter (beta) hardening as Apple makes changes to the OS.

Cool. :-)

Jehan

-Tres

- Tres.Finocchiaro@gmail.com

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 2:55 PM Jehan Pagès < jehan.marmottard@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Tres,

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 7:34 PM Tres Finocchiaro < tres.finocchiaro@gmail.com> wrote:

Jehan,

I'm the macOS packager for LMMS. I might be able to help out in his absence. LMMS is written in Qt, so the dependency stack is much different than Gimp which is Gtk, but if there's a documented build process via MacPorts or Homebrew, I can take a swing at it.

I know there are non-official MacPorts and Homebrew because it's written on our website. So these can be good references indeed.

Ideally we want the build scripts to be public and the build itself to also be public (not happen on someone's computer for obvious reasons). This is why Alex (our macOS contributor) has done a lot of work on the build repository:
https://gitlab.gnome.org/Infrastructure/gimp-macos-build It would be nice if continuing work were to happen on this same repository.

As for the build itself, it was happening on some CI service called CircleCI (because macOS builds can be done there, unlike the GNOME Gitlab CI machines). Builds are there:
https://circleci.com/gh/GNOME/gimp-macos-build

Note: you'll notice that there are builds for GIMP 2.10.18 there, which was from last time Alex was working on it. We don't really know the state and in particular if these builds done 2 months ago work well and safely, since none of us (but Alex) even has an Apple machine so we cannot test and won't recklessly make public completely untested DMG packages.

Last we heard from Alex, he had issues with the new "hardening" rules of macOS. Basically it made it impossible to run a debugger (lldb), which is what GIMP tries to do to self-debug when it crashes or encounter critical errors (a debug feature introduced in GIMP 2.10). I'm not sure he actually fixed it before going off-radar. If he didn't and the solution is too complicated, a possibility is to not care about this self-debugging feature of course. It's annoying if it doesn't work (because it makes reporting/fixing bugs easier), but it is better to have a package without the feature than none obviously. :-)

In any case, we will definitely welcome the help. Feel free to look at the scripts and propose patches/merge requests. I'm not sure if an access is needed to CircleCI project to see the build details (artifacts, logs and whatnot). Maybe just connecting with a github account is enough. If not, we'll try to figure this out.

Oh and last thing, if you have questions, the #gimp IRC channel on irc.gimp.org is a good place where you can find most developers. Thanks!

Jehan

Credentials: https://github.com/LMMS/lmms/pull/2271

-Tres

- Tres.Finocchiaro@gmail.com

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 1:11 PM Jehan Pagès via gimp-user-list < gimp-user-list@gnome.org> wrote:

Hello,

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 8:16 AM Maurizio Loreti via gimp-user-list < gimp-user-list@gnome.org> wrote:

Any foresight for an implementation of GIMP 2.10.18 for MacOS?

[I mean

official, not MacPorts (that uses XQuartz) nor Partha's].

Isn't it you who already asked at least twice the same thing? The answer is
still the same as we told you several times already. Our (unique!) macOS
contributor has not been available for like more than a month. And to be
fair, I don't care as much about the macOS version of GIMP as I am worried
about this contributor and hoping he (and his family) is still fine as we
get no news.

Since you knew already about the situation, a bit of compassion would not
be a bad thing.

If GIMP has problems with MacOS, what are these problems?

Isn't *no contributor* enough of a problem by itself? The problem is that
nobody seem to care enough to help this package happen (only enough to
**ask** for it apparently). We have called for contributors so many times
over the years (and again recently, so much there has even been a French
specialized mac-news website who relayed the call a few weeks ago!). This contributor could be you if you want to help packaging! The current version of scripts are there: https://gitlab.gnome.org/Infrastructure/gimp-macos-build

There are only 3 possible outcomes: 1/ This contributor finally comes back and he continues *alone* ???? to do
all the mac packaging.
2/ Other people finally show they care by contributing. 3/ A mix of 1/ and 2/ which is the best outcome!

In none of these scenarios just asking without contributing helps in any
way.
Thanks for either helping or understanding. ????

Jehan

--
Maurizio Loreti -- Maurizio.Loreti@gmail.com _______________________________________________ gimp-user-list mailing list
List address: gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership:

https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list

List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list

--
ZeMarmot open animation film
http://film.zemarmot.net
Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/ Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot Tipeee: https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot _______________________________________________ gimp-user-list mailing list
List address: gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership:
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list

--
ZeMarmot open animation film
http://film.zemarmot.net
Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/ Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot Tipeee: https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot

--
ZeMarmot open animation film
http://film.zemarmot.net
Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/ Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot Tipeee: https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot

--
ZeMarmot open animation film
http://film.zemarmot.net
Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/ Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot Tipeee: https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot

ZeMarmot open animation film
http://film.zemarmot.net
Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/
Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot
Tipeee: https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot
Tres Finocchiaro via gimp-user-list
2020-05-18 18:35:39 UTC (17 days ago)

MacOS

If you come on the IRC channel (#gimp on irc.gimp.org), you can also discuss with this new contributor (nickname "Benitoite", and "Jehan" for me).

My workflow doesn't jive well with IRC, but I'll hop on for a bit to say hello. :)

- Tres.Finocchiaro@gmail.com

On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 2:00 PM Jehan Pagès wrote:

Hi!

On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 6:37 PM Tres Finocchiaro < tres.finocchiaro@gmail.com> wrote:

I see some new patches arriving which suggests there's some new activity on the Mac port (SDK 10.9 -> 10.10), etc. I'll jump on the developer list as suggested although from what I'm seeing there's -- what appears to be -- progress so it'll be more for the purposes of familiarizing with the build system in the event my assistance is needed.

The patches you see are only in a single test branch which I created for someone who also wants to get familiarized with the build system, just like you. This being in a branch of the official repo (not master yet though) allows to get real builds on the CI service (which is otherwise a paid service).

You are still very welcome to help, and I can even make you a test branch if you want as well (or you can work on the same test branch with this other contributor). If you come on the IRC channel (#gimp on irc.gimp.org), you can also discuss with this new contributor (nickname "Benitoite", and "Jehan" for me). The more people the better. This brings redundancy if ever any of us needs to get a bit off-record for a bit (which is perfectly ok, people have lives) so that we don't end up again in the same situation with no package maintainer for months.

Jehan

- Tres.Finocchiaro@gmail.com

On Sat, Apr 25, 2020 at 3:14 PM Jehan Pagès wrote:

Hi,

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 10:09 PM Tres Finocchiaro < tres.finocchiaro@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks for the info. I'll comb the CI in the next week looking for the download. Circle-CI recently changed it's retention policy so if I need to re-fire a build, I'll jump on IRC and introduce myself.

Note, I only use IRC as-needed since it requires an always-on connection or cralwing service to read backlogs, but I'm not afraid to jump on.

Also, I'm a pretty big fan of Gimp. Switched to it exclusively for raster about 12 years ago, I'm also the one that whistleblew Sourceforge on their BS, getting this junkware removed: https://slashdot.org/submission/4471377/sf-says-adware-bundled-with-gimp-is-intentional

Anyway, I'll start diving into the CI this next week and post any high-level progress here. I realize I'm on the user's list (and that's OK) but I'll try to be kind as to not overwhelm it with dev-related convo. :D

Didn't realize this was the user list. Maybe we can continue the discussion in the developer list instead (to subscribe, if not already: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list) and/or IRC of course.

Jehan

-Tres

- Tres.Finocchiaro@gmail.com

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 3:52 PM Jehan Pagès wrote:

Hi!

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 9:19 PM Tres Finocchiaro < tres.finocchiaro@gmail.com> wrote:

he had issues with the new "hardening" rules of macOS

Although I'm very familiar with notarization and stapling , the hardened
runtimes require a much deeper understanding of C++, so my efforts would likely be futile.

Normally our builds now are notarized, signed and whatnot (I understand there are several security layers?) nowadays. We use the Apple ID of GNOME (contact Neil McGovern). If needed at some point, we can put you in contact.

I see the build system is 10.9+ (notarization requires a minimum of 10.9, so this is good) however in my experience, the dependencies are a nightmare when targeting older macOSs. My strategy has been to chain a bunch of custom steps
although
I'm curious how this is done using Gimp. At a glance, it appears (perhaps) the dependency listing is simpler. I see a macos-specific gtk script, that must be doing a lot of the work.

Yeah it's based on: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk-osx Alex had a GIMP-specific fork:
https://gitlab.gnome.org/samm-git/gtk-osx/tree/gimp But it's all written in the README, so you probably read it already.

As for the minimum system, initially we were targetting 10.10+ (we try to not support OS even unsupported by their developers, i.e. here Apple. And actually even 10.10 is not supported anymore by now, according to Wikipedia). Cf.
https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gimp/-/blob/gimp-2-10/devel-docs/os-support.txt But (if I recall) Alex was saying that supporting 10.9 was not much more difficult so we kept as-is at least until things ended up impossible (in which case we'd bump up the requirement).

There is also the fact that each time we drop support for an older Windows or macOS, we get a lot of hate from people. Of course this doesn't stop us but still. Let's say that if we have no reason to break support (i.e. doesn't make our life harder), why do it? ???? This being said, if our macOS contributor(s) consider that we have to drop support of old version X or Y of macOS for whatever good reason, we'll just do it. The doers are basically maintainers of their own part. ????

I spot some similarities, such as upstream bugs with otool tools , leveraging a 3rd
party dmg creator (I've
used app-dmg instead) but at a glance, the build system appears to be completely automated including signing and notarizing.

I think it is, since I can see steps "Importing signing certificate", "Creating DMG package" and "Notarizing DMG package" in the CI.

If testing the installer is the next steps before publishing, I can offer that by fetching the URL from the CI logs.

I indeed know the DMG is made available on CircleCI and can be downloaded in the "Artifacts" tab of builds. Maybe you'd need an account to see this, no idea. Do you see the DMG link?

I'm only a casual Gimp user though, so I'd be weary of passing a build as good on instinct alone. Do you have a QC spreadsheet or is it more of a best-effort basis?

To be clear, we have no idea. If this is not in the repository, it means that either Alex had not documented it (yet?) or it was just in his head. He has been the only one working on GIMP on macOS for like the last 2 years (and before him, we had another contributor who was also alone for many years; it seems we never manage to get more than 1 macOS dev at a time! ????).

I guess you could start creating a QC steps howto and contribute it to the repo once you are done. :-)

Sorry to not be of much help, but this is just how much we know nothing macOS-related.

Alex's notes are stellar btw.

Nice to read. He did put a lot of time and effort on this. We are extremely thankful to him (and to any contributor for that matter!).

Note, I use Gimp on macOS Catalina Developer Beta so I'll know right

away if the app or a particular feature is blocked and I'm more likely to have stricter (beta) hardening as Apple makes changes to the OS.

Cool. :-)

Jehan

-Tres

- Tres.Finocchiaro@gmail.com

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 2:55 PM Jehan Pagès < jehan.marmottard@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Tres,

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 7:34 PM Tres Finocchiaro < tres.finocchiaro@gmail.com> wrote:

Jehan,

I'm the macOS packager for LMMS. I might be able to help out in his absence. LMMS is written in Qt, so the dependency stack is much different than Gimp which is Gtk, but if there's a documented build process via MacPorts or Homebrew, I can take a swing at it.

I know there are non-official MacPorts and Homebrew because it's written on our website. So these can be good references indeed.

Ideally we want the build scripts to be public and the build itself to also be public (not happen on someone's computer for obvious reasons). This is why Alex (our macOS contributor) has done a lot of work on the build repository:
https://gitlab.gnome.org/Infrastructure/gimp-macos-build It would be nice if continuing work were to happen on this same repository.

As for the build itself, it was happening on some CI service called CircleCI (because macOS builds can be done there, unlike the GNOME Gitlab CI machines). Builds are there:
https://circleci.com/gh/GNOME/gimp-macos-build

Note: you'll notice that there are builds for GIMP 2.10.18 there, which was from last time Alex was working on it. We don't really know the state and in particular if these builds done 2 months ago work well and safely, since none of us (but Alex) even has an Apple machine so we cannot test and won't recklessly make public completely untested DMG packages.

Last we heard from Alex, he had issues with the new "hardening" rules of macOS. Basically it made it impossible to run a debugger (lldb), which is what GIMP tries to do to self-debug when it crashes or encounter critical errors (a debug feature introduced in GIMP 2.10). I'm not sure he actually fixed it before going off-radar. If he didn't and the solution is too complicated, a possibility is to not care about this self-debugging feature of course. It's annoying if it doesn't work (because it makes reporting/fixing bugs easier), but it is better to have a package without the feature than none obviously. :-)

In any case, we will definitely welcome the help. Feel free to look at the scripts and propose patches/merge requests. I'm not sure if an access is needed to CircleCI project to see the build details (artifacts, logs and whatnot). Maybe just connecting with a github account is enough. If not, we'll try to figure this out.

Oh and last thing, if you have questions, the #gimp IRC channel on irc.gimp.org is a good place where you can find most developers. Thanks!

Jehan

Credentials: https://github.com/LMMS/lmms/pull/2271

-Tres

- Tres.Finocchiaro@gmail.com

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 1:11 PM Jehan Pagès via gimp-user-list < gimp-user-list@gnome.org> wrote:

Hello,

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 8:16 AM Maurizio Loreti via gimp-user-list <
gimp-user-list@gnome.org> wrote:

Any foresight for an implementation of GIMP 2.10.18 for MacOS?

[I mean

official, not MacPorts (that uses XQuartz) nor Partha's].

Isn't it you who already asked at least twice the same thing? The answer is
still the same as we told you several times already. Our (unique!) macOS
contributor has not been available for like more than a month. And to be
fair, I don't care as much about the macOS version of GIMP as I am worried
about this contributor and hoping he (and his family) is still fine as we
get no news.

Since you knew already about the situation, a bit of compassion would not
be a bad thing.

If GIMP has problems with MacOS, what are these problems?

Isn't *no contributor* enough of a problem by itself? The problem is that
nobody seem to care enough to help this package happen (only enough to
**ask** for it apparently). We have called for contributors so many times
over the years (and again recently, so much there has even been a French
specialized mac-news website who relayed the call a few weeks ago!).
This contributor could be you if you want to help packaging! The current version of scripts are there: https://gitlab.gnome.org/Infrastructure/gimp-macos-build

There are only 3 possible outcomes: 1/ This contributor finally comes back and he continues *alone* ???? to do
all the mac packaging.
2/ Other people finally show they care by contributing. 3/ A mix of 1/ and 2/ which is the best outcome!

In none of these scenarios just asking without contributing helps in any
way.
Thanks for either helping or understanding. ????

Jehan

--
Maurizio Loreti -- Maurizio.Loreti@gmail.com _______________________________________________ gimp-user-list mailing list
List address: gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership:

https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list

List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list

--
ZeMarmot open animation film
http://film.zemarmot.net
Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/ Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot Tipeee: https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot _______________________________________________ gimp-user-list mailing list
List address: gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership:
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list

--
ZeMarmot open animation film
http://film.zemarmot.net
Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/ Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot Tipeee: https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot

--
ZeMarmot open animation film
http://film.zemarmot.net
Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/ Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot Tipeee: https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot

--
ZeMarmot open animation film
http://film.zemarmot.net
Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/ Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot Tipeee: https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot

--
ZeMarmot open animation film
http://film.zemarmot.net
Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/ Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot Tipeee: https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot