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Why is 16/32bpp taking so long?

This discussion is connected to the gimp-user-list.gnome.org mailing list which is provided by the GIMP developers and not related to gimpusers.com.

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Why is 16/32bpp taking so long? artao 21 Jul 12:18
  Why is 16/32bpp taking so long? David Gowers (kampu) 21 Jul 13:26
   Why is 16/32bpp taking so long? Alexandre Prokoudine 21 Jul 13:33
    Why is 16/32bpp taking so long? artao 21 Jul 16:57
     Why is 16/32bpp taking so long? Alexandre Prokoudine 21 Jul 17:29
     Why is 16/32bpp taking so long? " 21 Jul 18:02
  Why is 16/32bpp taking so long? Alexandre Prokoudine 21 Jul 13:26
artao
2011-07-21 12:18:56 UTC (almost 13 years ago)
postings
2

Why is 16/32bpp taking so long?

I googled, but haven't found anything particularly recent regarding this. BTW, is there some way to search these forums? I can't find it. anyhow
Please don't take this as snarky. I admit I'm a bit frustrated with the SLOOWWW pace of development. Sorry. So, what's up with 16/32bpp support? In this day and age, it's rather essential. Why is it taking so long for higher than 8bpp color depths to be integrated? SOOOOO many other apps have it, and HAVE had it for quite some time. Many of them are open source. Is it really necessary for the GIMP devs to develop a completely new system (GEGL) to support this? Pull code from other OSS projects?? Why not?? The best info I've found is contradictory. The official GIMP site states that ver 2.8 will support high bit depth color. I found a post, on here actually, stating that 2.8 will NOT support high bit depth color, and that it will take 3 - 4 years (!!!! WTF ????) for GIMP to have that. come ON!!!! Please???
and, in general, why is GIMP development so slow?? ...
so y'all's can blast me now for my impertinence to ask about this. but seriously!! it's taking for fricken EVER!!!

thanks, l8r, artao

David Gowers (kampu)
2011-07-21 13:26:28 UTC (almost 13 years ago)

Why is 16/32bpp taking so long?

Some points:

* These are not forums. This is a mailing list. Accessing it through the unofficial gimpusers.com 'forum interface' doesn't change that fact.

* The official GIMP site has problems, mainly to do with lacking a maintainer. It tends to be only updated on releases and other major events like Google Summer Of Code. So it's often not up to date with any more minor information.

* GIMP developers are fairly committed to doing this the right way, rather than the simple/buggy way. What does this mean? Well, for example, Photoshop is still yet to properly support high bit depth (16/32bpc) images -- instead it provides a small subset of operations. Most other image manipulation apps I've tried, this is also true for. This is by way of saying...

* Supporting multiple image types in a generic, non hacky way is a HARD problem (mainly because of all the existing code that is built around obsolete assumptions). One of the Michael's has been developing a testing system, which as it matures will allow code to be upgraded more aggressively (because it will provide a way to determine, automatically, whether said code is still behaving *correctly*). There is also a GSOC project currently underway to port some of the default set of GIMP plugins to the GEGL architecture

* There are not very many active GIMP or GEGL developers. So, in a real sense, it's because YOU (for whatever value of you) are not progressing the development of GIMP and/ or GEGL.

Alexandre Prokoudine
2011-07-21 13:26:42 UTC (almost 13 years ago)

Why is 16/32bpp taking so long?

On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 4:18 PM, artao wrote:

I googled, but haven't found anything particularly recent regarding this.

You could have started with reading news at gimp.org, especially the one from 2011-01-11 (PLANS FOR 2.8 AND BEYOND).

You next stops are:

http://wiki.gimp.org/index.php/Roadmap http://libregraphicsworld.org/news.php?readmore=732

Please don't take this as snarky. I admit I'm a bit frustrated with the SLOOWWW pace of development. Sorry.

Sorry about what?

Why is it taking so long for higher than 8bpp color depths to be integrated?

Because we are a small team with not much time on our hands.

Is it really necessary for the GIMP devs to develop a completely new system (GEGL) to support this?

Yes, it is.

Pull code from other OSS projects?? Why not??

Because it makes no sense.

The best info I've found is contradictory. The official GIMP site states that ver 2.8 will support high bit depth color.

No, it doesn't say that. Read again.

Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org

Alexandre Prokoudine
2011-07-21 13:33:16 UTC (almost 13 years ago)

Why is 16/32bpp taking so long?

On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 5:26 PM, David Gowers (kampu) wrote:

Just a minor correction...

   Photoshop is still yet to properly support high bit depth (16/32bpc) images -- instead it provides a small subset of operations.

Only if the last version you tried was CS2 :) They actually adjusted lots of filters and tools to work in high bit depth properly over last several years. Probbaly not all, but not "a small subset" for sure.

Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org

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artao
2011-07-21 16:57:50 UTC (almost 13 years ago)
postings
2

Why is 16/32bpp taking so long?

Aha, I misread the GIMP 2.8 announcements. I guess I thought GEGL was inherently high bit depth. So, several years then is fairly accurate? Oh well.
I neglected in my opening post to THANK the devs for their hard work. GIMP is a great app. Keep up the hard work. I'm no programmer, not even remotely. Not much I can do as far as helping, except apparently to be yet another whiny user asking, "why can't GIMP do 'x'?" :P Keep on keepin on. I'm dedicated to an OSS workflow in my artistic endeavors ... but PS is quite tempting, IF I had the money ...

Alexandre Prokoudine
2011-07-21 17:29:02 UTC (almost 13 years ago)

Why is 16/32bpp taking so long?

On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 8:57 PM, artao wrote:

Aha, I misread the GIMP 2.8 announcements. I guess I thought GEGL was inherently high bit depth. So, several years then is fairly accurate?

It's hard to say. To the best of my knowledge, some bits of GIMP are ready to be replaced with GEGL already, while others aren't. I don't think anyone tried seriously estimating amount of work.

The good news is that we are switching to smaller release cycles, and high bit depth has higher priority than other fancy features. In general, I wouldn't expect usable high bit depth capable GIMP sooner than end of 2012. It really depends on amount of developers we manage to interest and their talent.

Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org

"
2011-07-21 18:02:37 UTC (almost 13 years ago)

Why is 16/32bpp taking so long?

On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 5:57 PM, artao wrote:

Aha, I misread the GIMP 2.8 announcements. I guess I thought GEGL was inherently high bit depth. So, several years then is fairly accurate?

GEGL itself is inherently high bitdepth, the current integration of GEGL in GIMP however isn't complete and thus GIMP is still storing the pixels in its own data structures which are 8bpc. Until that part of the migration is done it doesn't matter that some code paths are using GEGL for the processing.

/Øyvind K.

«The future is already here. It's just not very evenly distributed»
                                                 -- William Gibson
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