On Wed, 2012-10-10 at 19:44 +0900, Jehan Pagès wrote:

Hi,

just to inform that I have submitted today on the Bugzilla a patch to set GIMP's configuration inside the system's config directory, delegating this to Glib's g_get_user_config_dir(). I checked the exact code in Glib, so that I can affirm it will follow XDG rules on any UNIX-like platform; and will go under the LocalAppDataFolder under Windows.

This should satisfy Bugs 166643, 171171 and 164075.

Some people wanted to go further in XDG by separating pure conf (all *rc files) from data (brushes, dynamics, fonts, etc.), and even cache data, etc. Though it is an interesting idea, my patch does not do this right now. Right now all will go under $XDG_CONFIG_HOME (just as before it used to all go under $HOME). But this can be done in a further step towards XDG later.

Also my patch does rely fully on g_get_user_config_dir(), which does not differentiate any UNIX-like platform. Hence OSX will be following XDG as well, though current code uses the user's LibraryDirectory, which is likely different. Though I prefer to follow the XDG recommendations, if OSX users absolutely desires to follow Apple's habits, I perfectly understand, and this is easy to fix by making back the same special-OSX behavior as before.

I hope this patch will go in! Waiting for any feedback or anything that needs to be changed before merging. :-)

Thanks for the patch! I just gave feedback in bugzilla.

Regards, --mitch

Hi all,

Since we are about to change things here, let's do it right and consistent across platforms this time.

I suggest:

OSX: NSApplicationSupportDirectory/GIMP/GIMP_APP_VERSION WIN: APPDATA/GIMP/GIMP_APP_VERSION
XDG: XDG_CONFIG_DIR/GIMP/GIMP_APP_VERSION

which means for master:

OSX: ~/Library/Application Support/GIMP/2.9 WIN: (whatever windows folder i have no clue about)\GIMP\2.9 XDG: ~/.config/GIMP/2.9

I know the part before "GIMP/2.9" should be handled by g_get_user_config_dir(), but until it does, let's do the right thing anyway.

Comments?

--mitch

On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 6:12 PM, Michael Natterer wrote:

Hi all,

Since we are about to change things here, let's do it right and consistent across platforms this time.

I suggest:

OSX: NSApplicationSupportDirectory/GIMP/GIMP_APP_VERSION WIN: APPDATA/GIMP/GIMP_APP_VERSION
XDG: XDG_CONFIG_DIR/GIMP/GIMP_APP_VERSION

which means for master:

OSX: ~/Library/Application Support/GIMP/2.9 WIN: (whatever windows folder i have no clue about)\GIMP\2.9 XDG: ~/.config/GIMP/2.9

I know the part before "GIMP/2.9" should be handled by g_get_user_config_dir(), but until it does, let's do the right thing anyway.

Comments?

--mitch

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Yes, I think this will break a whole lot of folks who have gotten into the "bad" habit already with c:/Users/$Username/.gimp-x.x while OSX just went from .gimp-x.x to ~/Library/Application Support/gimp-x.x to ~/Library/GIMP/x.x back to ~/Library/Application Support/gimp-x.x.

Can't we simply make this a user configuration as it used to be before where one could select the user directory?

Of course, if the above will be the rule, at least publicize it in advance?

On Wed, 2012-10-10 at 21:12 -0400, Partha Bagchi wrote:

On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 6:12 PM, Michael Natterer wrote:

Hi all,

Since we are about to change things here, let's do it right and consistent across platforms this time.

I suggest:

OSX: NSApplicationSupportDirectory/GIMP/GIMP_APP_VERSION WIN: APPDATA/GIMP/GIMP_APP_VERSION
XDG: XDG_CONFIG_DIR/GIMP/GIMP_APP_VERSION

which means for master:

OSX: ~/Library/Application Support/GIMP/2.9 WIN: (whatever windows folder i have no clue about)\GIMP\2.9 XDG: ~/.config/GIMP/2.9

I know the part before "GIMP/2.9" should be handled by g_get_user_config_dir(), but until it does, let's do the right thing anyway.

Comments?

--mitch

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gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
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Yes, I think this will break a whole lot of folks who have gotten into the "bad" habit already with c:/Users/$Username/.gimp-x.x while OSX just went from .gimp-x.x to ~/Library/Application Support/gimp-x.x to ~/Library/GIMP/x.x back to ~/Library/Application Support/gimp-x.x.

We didn't officially support OSX until 2.8, and temporarily breaking the ~/Library/GIMP/x.x mistake, well we just have to live with it.

Can't we simply make this a user configuration as it used to be before where one could select the user directory?

What was this a user configuration?

Of course, if the above will be the rule, at least publicize it in advance?

This will be for 2.10, and we will have docs that help to migrate directories that are not automatically done (if any).

--mitch

On Thu, 2012-10-11 at 13:21 +0900, Jehan Pagès wrote:

Hi,

On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 10:12 AM, Partha Bagchi wrote:

On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 6:12 PM, Michael Natterer wrote:

Hi all,

Since we are about to change things here, let's do it right and consistent across platforms this time.

I suggest:

OSX: NSApplicationSupportDirectory/GIMP/GIMP_APP_VERSION WIN: APPDATA/GIMP/GIMP_APP_VERSION
XDG: XDG_CONFIG_DIR/GIMP/GIMP_APP_VERSION

which means for master:

OSX: ~/Library/Application Support/GIMP/2.9 WIN: (whatever windows folder i have no clue about)\GIMP\2.9 XDG: ~/.config/GIMP/2.9

I know the part before "GIMP/2.9" should be handled by g_get_user_config_dir(), but until it does, let's do the right thing anyway.

Comments?

--mitch

_______________________________________________ gimp-developer-list mailing list
gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list

Yes, I think this will break a whole lot of folks who have gotten into the "bad" habit already with c:/Users/$Username/.gimp-x.x while OSX just went from .gimp-x.x to ~/Library/Application Support/gimp-x.x to ~/Library/GIMP/x.x back to ~/Library/Application Support/gimp-x.x.

No we have a migration system (it was already in place, I simply updated it to now take the current naming into account) which happens when you start the GIMP in some version for the first time. Basically when 2.10 will go out with the new path, and see there is no ~/.config/GIMP/2.10, it will search for ~/.gimp-2.8, then ~/.gimp-2.6, etc. And it will migrate if it finds one. Only people who compile with --with-gimpdir option different from one time to another (but if they always used the same, or the defaults, no problem), and maybe people who use the environment variable (because they never let GIMP migrate their options properly), can have a problem. Otherwise no breakage.
In other words, the problem may happen for those who use custom folders rather than the one using default settings.

Can't we simply make this a user configuration as it used to be before where one could select the user directory?

Setting of the configuration folder's name at compile time (--with-gimpdir) stays, but it is now relative to the user configuration directory, not the home. So you can call your folder BLABLA/2.10 instead of GIMP/2.10, if you really wish so. Actually by the new system that Michael proposes, we will even fix a potential migration breakage where people were choosing a folder name without the version in it. Hence migration of configuration could break (in case something had to change, but GIMP can't know it has to migrate).

The configuration by environment variable ($GIMP2_DIRECTORY) stays as well and is still the priority if set. Also it is still relative to $HOME directory if relative, as it used to be (for the exact reason that I don't want to break existing configuration).

That leads me to wonder: what do we want to do if the variable is set: 1) We save directly under this path. Hence we never know if a version bump (or downgrade) occurred (hence there can be problems at every change of version for this user's configuration if ever something a little more than copy-paste needed to happen). 2) We now make a subdirectory with the version. Hence $GIMP2_DIRECTORY/x.x/.

I would think that we could go with 2). That's a little more work to detect the situation but that's nicer to the users. What do you think? Of course, if you don't want, that's just less work for me, so I am ok. :p

We can't do that, gimp_directory() returns the folder where stuff is stored, and i should stay that way.

Of course, if the above will be the rule, at least publicize it in advance?

I can't answer for this, but I guess there could be a news, of course. But as I said, that should be transparent to most users. Hence a simple item in the release note should be ok. But a news is always nice because a lot of people waited for XDG support. :-)

Jehan

On Thursday, October 11, 2012, 0:12:32, Michael Natterer wrote:

WIN: APPDATA/GIMP/GIMP_APP_VERSION

Sounds great to me.

Michael Natterer wrote:

which means for master:

OSX: ~/Library/Application Support/GIMP/2.9 WIN: (whatever windows folder i have no clue about)\GIMP\2.9 XDG: ~/.config/GIMP/2.9

Having looked into this, I'm not sure that's correct. I think it should be:

OSX: ~/Library/Preferences/GIMP/2.9 WIN: %APPDATA%\GIMP\2.9
XDG: ~/.config/GIMP/2.9

$XDG_DATA_HOME best corresponds to "Application Support", while $XDG_CONF_HOME best corresponds to "Preferences".

Full list of cross platform mappings (as best I can figure):

The following paths are used for each of the 5 XDG concepts, listed in order of priority:

Per user application related data.

Per user application configuration settings.

Per user application cache storage area.

Local system wide application related data.

Local system wide application configuration settings.

Unix: $XDG_DATA_HOME
$HOME/.local/share

$XDG_CONF_HOME $HOME/.config

$XDG_CACHE_HOME $HOME/.cache

$XDG_DATA_DIRS /usr/local/share:/usr/share

$XDG_CONF_DIRS /etc/xdg

OS X:
$XDG_DATA_HOME
$HOME/Library/Application Support

$XDG_CONF_HOME $HOME/Library/Preferences

$XDG_CACHE_HOME $HOME/Library/Caches

$XDG_DATA_DIRS /Library/Application Support

$XDG_CONF_DIRS /Library/Preferences

MSWin: $XDG_DATA_HOME
$APPDATA
$HOME/.local/share

$XDG_CONF_HOME $APPDATA
$HOME/.config

$XDG_CACHE_HOME $APPDATA/Cache
$HOME/.cache

$XDG_DATA_DIRS $ALLUSERSPROFILE

$XDG_CONF_DIRS $ALLUSERSPROFILE

Graeme Gill.

On Thu, 2012-10-11 at 16:12 +0900, Jehan Pagès wrote:

We can't do that, gimp_directory() returns the folder where stuff is stored, and i should stay that way.

I must have badly explained, because that's not what I wanted to tell. :-) gimp_directory() will still and always return where stuff is stored. No problem here. Only discussing how to determine this folder when the env variable is set. Basically there are 2 cases:

(1) No environment var set: gimp_directory() will return {conf-dir}/GIMP/2.10/ where {conf-dir} depends on the platform (XDG_CONFIG_HOME on Linux, APPDATA on Win and NSApplicationSupportDirectory on OSX basically). All good.

(2) the env var is set: until now gimp_directory() would return $GIMP2_DIRECTORY itself.
I propose to return $GIMP2_DIRECTORY/2.10/ instead. Note that the user is still choosing the root of where GIMP should store the configuration, and all the rest. Simply we add one level in the configuration tree. This way, first we make it consistent with the case (1). Second we can support their configuration migration.

The problem indeed when people set this variable is that when a 2.8 users will use 2.10 for the first time, if he had this variable both before and now, GIMP will not consider the user's configuration to be a 2.8. Hence no migration will happen. In most cases, that should be ok (as the migration is mostly about copy-pasting files and folders). But if something changed and we want to actually do something other than copy-pasting, these users will be the only one where the migration will fail.

Um, please not :) Whoever sets this globally in their env essentially broke multiple gimp versions already anyway. GIMP2_DIRECTORY is for development and for launcher scripts, you would say:

GIMP2_DIRECTORY="~/.config/GIMP/2.10-alternative" gimp-2.10

if you have a second GIMP version around. Returning only the base "GIMP" path would create more messy folder trees. Let's keep it simple :)

--mitch

On Thu, 2012-10-11 at 18:19 +1100, Graeme Gill wrote:

Michael Natterer wrote:

which means for master:

OSX: ~/Library/Application Support/GIMP/2.9 WIN: (whatever windows folder i have no clue about)\GIMP\2.9 XDG: ~/.config/GIMP/2.9

Having looked into this, I'm not sure that's correct. I think it should be:

OSX: ~/Library/Preferences/GIMP/2.9 WIN: %APPDATA%\GIMP\2.9
XDG: ~/.config/GIMP/2.9

$XDG_DATA_HOME best corresponds to "Application Support", while $XDG_CONF_HOME best corresponds to "Preferences".

We are not going to make that distinction for GIMP and keep *one* folder instead, because we tell people all the time to get a "clean" install by moving their GIMPDIR away, and we're not starting to tell them to move two folders away.

We are going to move the caches to XDG_CACHE_HOME for 2.10 tho.

See below for how I see things currently, please comment if I make no sense.

Full list of cross platform mappings (as best I can figure):

The following paths are used for each of the 5 XDG concepts, listed in order of priority:

Per user application related data.

Per user application configuration settings.

Per user application cache storage area.

Local system wide application related data.

Local system wide application configuration settings.

Unix: $XDG_DATA_HOME
$HOME/.local/share

Not going to use this one.

$XDG_CONF_HOME
$HOME/.config

Check.

$XDG_CACHE_HOME
$HOME/.cache

Check.

$XDG_DATA_DIRS
/usr/local/share:/usr/share

Check.

$XDG_CONF_DIRS
/etc/xdg

What were they thinking when specifying this :)

OS X:
$XDG_DATA_HOME
$HOME/Library/Application Support

Check.

$XDG_CONF_HOME
$HOME/Library/Preferences

Nope.

$XDG_CACHE_HOME
$HOME/Library/Caches

Check.

$XDG_DATA_DIRS
/Library/Application Support

Shipped stuff lives in the bundle.

$XDG_CONF_DIRS
/Library/Preferences

-> bundle.

MSWin:
$XDG_DATA_HOME
$APPDATA
$HOME/.local/share

APPDATA.

$XDG_CONF_HOME
$APPDATA
$HOME/.config

APPDATA.

$XDG_CACHE_HOME
$APPDATA/Cache
$HOME/.cache

Unclear, I have no clue about windows.

$XDG_DATA_DIRS
$ALLUSERSPROFILE

$XDG_CONF_DIRS $ALLUSERSPROFILE

-> bundle.

On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 2:47 AM, Michael Natterer wrote:

On Wed, 2012-10-10 at 21:12 -0400, Partha Bagchi wrote:

On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 6:12 PM, Michael Natterer wrote:

Hi all,

Since we are about to change things here, let's do it right and consistent across platforms this time.

I suggest:

OSX: NSApplicationSupportDirectory/GIMP/GIMP_APP_VERSION WIN: APPDATA/GIMP/GIMP_APP_VERSION
XDG: XDG_CONFIG_DIR/GIMP/GIMP_APP_VERSION

which means for master:

OSX: ~/Library/Application Support/GIMP/2.9 WIN: (whatever windows folder i have no clue about)\GIMP\2.9 XDG: ~/.config/GIMP/2.9

I know the part before "GIMP/2.9" should be handled by g_get_user_config_dir(), but until it does, let's do the right thing anyway.

Comments?

--mitch

_______________________________________________ gimp-developer-list mailing list
gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list

Yes, I think this will break a whole lot of folks who have gotten into the "bad" habit already with c:/Users/$Username/.gimp-x.x while OSX just went from .gimp-x.x to ~/Library/Application Support/gimp-x.x to ~/Library/GIMP/x.x back to ~/Library/Application Support/gimp-x.x.

We didn't officially support OSX until 2.8, and temporarily breaking the ~/Library/GIMP/x.x mistake, well we just have to live with it.

Can't we simply make this a user configuration as it used to be before where one could select the user directory?

What was this a user configuration?

Of course, if the above will be the rule, at least publicize it in advance?

This will be for 2.10, and we will have docs that help to migrate directories that are not automatically done (if any).

--mitch

Don't get me wrong, I personally think it is a good idea to confirm to an OS's native file standards and this will in some sense "legitimize" Gimp. :).

With User configuration I meant, setting the the configuration option --with-gimpdir. Sorry I was not clear.

On Thu, 2012-10-11 at 05:34 -0400, Partha Bagchi wrote:

Don't get me wrong, I personally think it is a good idea to confirm to an OS's native file standards and this will in some sense "legitimize" Gimp. :).

I didn't :)

With User configuration I meant, setting the the configuration option --with-gimpdir. Sorry I was not clear.

But I got this one wrong. we will have to somehow change the configure option, we can't set GIMPDIR to "GIMP/2.10" (on windows GIMP\2.10 of course).

--mitch