Am 18.11.03, 22:49 +0100 schrieb Sven Neumann:

correction filters. If these plug-ins and modules all use lcms and share ICC profiles by means of gimprc and parasites, you could use

Have gimps configure an header check for lcms allready onboard? This would help plug-ins to easily link against liblcms?

Kai-Uwe

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Kai-Uwe Behrmann wrote: | Am 18.11.03, 22:49 +0100 schrieb Sven Neumann: |
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|>correction filters. If these plug-ins and modules all use lcms and |>share ICC profiles by means of gimprc and parasites, you could use |
|
| Have gimps configure an header check for lcms allready onboard? This | would help plug-ins to easily link against liblcms?

I am working on an api for this in GEGL. It is probably best to use the system api's, when available, since there are already methods to plug lcms into the exisiting system api's (on windows and Mac OS X) as a CMM. ~ There will be an abstraction in GEGL for this. Eventually, I am going to try an get it moved to the freedesktop.org people (and into gtk). But that is quite a long term goal.

- -- Dan
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Am 20.11.03, 21:10 -0800 schrieb Daniel Rogers:

I am working on an api for this in GEGL. It is probably best to use the system api's, when available, since there are already methods to plug lcms into the exisiting system api's (on windows and Mac OS X) as a CMM.

This would be fine for unix based systems too. Are there any plans to create an system interface for X to plug-in an CMM? Do You know someone allready working on this?

~ There will be an abstraction in GEGL for this. Eventually, I am going to try an get it moved to the freedesktop.org people (and into gtk). But that is quite a long term goal.

Can You provide more informations about the current state of CMS in GEGL?

regards Kai-Uwe

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Kai-Uwe Behrmann wrote: | Am 20.11.03, 21:10 -0800 schrieb Daniel Rogers: |
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|>I am working on an api for this in GEGL. It is probably best to use the |>system api's, when available, since there are already methods to plug |>lcms into the exisiting system api's (on windows and Mac OS X) as a CMM. |
|
| This would be fine for unix based systems too. Are there any plans to | create an system interface for X to plug-in an CMM? | Do You know someone allready working on this?

yeah, I am working on this. Hopefully, I will be going to talk to the X.org and freedesktop people in December.

| |>~ There will be an abstraction in GEGL for this. Eventually, I am going |>to try an get it moved to the freedesktop.org people (and into gtk). |>But that is quite a long term goal. |
|
| Can You provide more informations about the current state of CMS in GEGL?

asking about the CMS in GEGL is really asking about the current state of LCMS. LCMS is a pretty darn complete color management system. And there isn't a lot of solid information. I know what I want to do, I just need to do it.

Ok, so I avoided the question. Do you want me to discuss technical details of how I think colormanagement will work in gegl?

- -- Daniel
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web@tiscali.de (2003-11-21 at 0834.36 +0100):

This would be fine for unix based systems too. Are there any plans to create an system interface for X to plug-in an CMM? Do You know someone allready working on this?

apropos Xcms should give you some man pages, here it does. If one checks the background of X11 (ie, Silicon Graphics machines) it sounds logical to have such thing, I have heard that some people have used custom LUTs to do film work with plain Linux too... so it is all about lack of publicity and docs, I guess.

GSR

GSR - FR wrote:

web@tiscali.de (2003-11-21 at 0834.36 +0100):

This would be fine for unix based systems too. Are there any plans to create an system interface for X to plug-in an CMM? Do You know someone allready working on this?

apropos Xcms should give you some man pages, here it does. If one checks the background of X11 (ie, Silicon Graphics machines) it sounds logical to have such thing, I have heard that some people have used custom LUTs to do film work with plain Linux too... so it is all about lack of publicity and docs, I guess.

Ah, well I interpreted this slightly differently. While X11 does have color management support, it is not as good as lcms, and doesn't support the concept of CMM, which is what I really thought he was asking about. Pro people like to be able to buy Color Management Modules and plug them into the exsisting system apis.

-- Dan

Am 21.11.03, 09:37 -0800 schrieb Daniel Rogers:

Ah, well I interpreted this slightly differently. While X11 does have color management support, it is not as good as lcms, and doesn't support the concept of CMM, which is what I really thought he was asking about. Pro people like to be able to buy Color Management Modules and plug them into the exsisting system apis.

I heard lcms is plugable as an CMM module too (mac/win) and is sold for zero ;-)

--
Kai-Uwe

Am 21.11.03, 16:04 +0100 schrieb Sven Neumann:

would help plug-ins to easily link against liblcms?

I don't see how a configure check in GIMP would help plug-ins so the answer to the question doesn't really matter. I'll give it anway: I've added such a check a few minutes ago when the color proof display filter was added to CVS.

Great.
Thanks for this hint. I will see what I can do with it.

-- Kai-Uwe

Am 24.11.03, 11:29 +0100 schrieb Sven Neumann:

Hmm? As I already outlined, the configure check in GIMP doesn't help external plug-ins and modules. Also, GIMP does not depend on lcms now, so I wonder what exactly you are trying to do with it ...?

I guessed You mean to set an variable which helps to set lcms paths and switches in the Makefile. For instance the separate plug-in from Alastair M. Robinson and the color-manager from Karl Heinz Kremer need to detect lcms separately from the main app. These are plug-ins helping to work with different colour spaces. Will they not included in gimps main release?

To my plans. As I was asked by users to make cinepaints tiffreader compile in gimp because of its multilayer capabilities I like to reach the most common behaviour. Recently I started to use lcms to convert undisplayable colour spaces to RGB. So I am now able to open CMYKs and Lab to an visible image. But it is not clear at the moment how to handle it at all. Maybe the upcoming CMS framework of gimp is an better solution to handle this. Next would be to apply an embedded profile to the image data and load the converted image into the app. This could help to justify the workspace. Other CMS issues stay on my plan. I found tiff has very good colour management capabilities, so I work mostly on supporting this format.

I liked to offer the compatible plug-in with all features of gimp plug-in and the additionals of cinepaint for gimps 2.0 realease. At the moment Recently a friend and I managed the plug-in to compile with gimp-1.3.23 .

This is part of what I plan to give back to gimp. To work for both apps at once makes it more likely that people will enjoy the advantages of tiff .

Hope this helps avoiding some further code duplication. Kai-Uwe

Am 26.11.03, 12:32 +0100 schrieb Sven Neumann:

They should probably be included at some point. Actually our goal was to move as much plug-ins out of the main distribution as possible and not to accept any new plug-ins. However since there's still no useable plug-in registry, we lately changed this policy and started to add plug-ins to the 1.3 tree.

I understand.

However it's a bit late to still add plug-ins for 2.0 but we can start now to implement a reasonable CMS framework in plug-ins and modules and integrate these into the distribution for the 2.2 release.

The later sounds interessting.

convert undisplayable colour spaces to RGB. So I am now able to open CMYKs and Lab to an visible image.

libtiff does these color conversions for you already. The GIMP tiff

Yes, CMYK is converted natively by libtiff. The plug-in is able to do it with an embedded ICC profile. This may remain for the CMS framework of gimp You mentioned.

plug-in is able to read CMYK files, not sure about Lab. The ability to read multiple pages from TIFF files should be added to GIMP's standard TIFF plug-in. This is a frequently requested feature and we are waiting for a patch for quite some time already:

http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=66886

Loading it up with my login failed. Are there other ways to send it?

As I said, it's a bit late to get this into 2.0. But it all depends on how large the changes are. I don't think we can integrate color management at this point but a clean patch for loading multiple pages could be accepted into 2.0 still.

It is more a new plug-in in terms of size. My goal was not to split the code for different apps. So take a look on it yourselfe.

Kai-Uwe