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MIDI controllers for controlling brush size and colors [was: Save Export Complaints]

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MIDI controllers for controlling brush size and colors [was: Save Export Complaints] yahvuu 12 Sep 17:49
  MIDI controllers for controlling brush size and colors [was: Save Export Complaints] Ryan Stark 13 Sep 10:25
   MIDI controllers for controlling brush size and colors [was: Save Export Complaints] Alexandre Prokoudine 13 Sep 10:35
   MIDI controllers for controlling brush size and colors [was: Save Export Complaints] Ryan Stark 13 Sep 10:36
    MIDI controllers for controlling brush size and colors [was: Save Export Complaints] Ryan Stark 13 Sep 10:46
     MIDI controllers for controlling brush size and colors [was: Save Export Complaints] Alexandre Prokoudine 13 Sep 10:51
     MIDI controllers for controlling brush size and colors [was: Save Export Complaints] Ryan Stark 13 Sep 10:53
      MIDI controllers for controlling brush size and colors [was: Save Export Complaints] Ryan Stark 13 Sep 11:07
       MIDI controllers for controlling brush size and colors [was: Save Export Complaints] Ryan Stark 13 Sep 11:16
        MIDI controllers for controlling brush size and colors [was: Save Export Complaints] Alexandre Prokoudine 13 Sep 13:08
         MIDI controllers for controlling brush size and colors [was: Save Export Complaints] Ryan Stark 13 Sep 15:05
   MIDI controllers for controlling brush size and colors [was: Save Export Complaints] Joao S. O. Bueno 13 Sep 11:17
    MIDI controllers for controlling brush size and colors [was: Save Export Complaints] Ryan Stark 13 Sep 11:26
     MIDI controllers for controlling brush size and colors [was: Save Export Complaints] Ryan Stark 13 Sep 11:39
     MIDI controllers for controlling brush size and colors [was: Save Export Complaints] Joao S. O. Bueno 13 Sep 11:47
      MIDI controllers for controlling brush size and colors [was: Save Export Complaints] Ryan Stark 13 Sep 12:02
       MIDI controllers for controlling brush size and colors [was: Save Export Complaints] Ryan Stark 13 Sep 12:27
      MIDI controllers for controlling brush size and colors [was: Save Export Complaints] Liam R E Quin 13 Sep 17:11
yahvuu
2012-09-12 17:49:19 UTC (over 1 year ago)

MIDI controllers for controlling brush size and colors [was: Save Export Complaints]

Hello Ryan,

Am 12.09.2012 15:25, schrieb Ryan Stark:

[..] Gimp can be hooked up to a MIDI controller for controlling brush sizes or anything else. This is a superb feature. You can buy a little MIDI controller with lots of knobs and sliders. VASTLY superior to sliders on graphics tablets.

Und Am 12.09.2012 18:31, schrieb Ryan Stark:

"Now that's a really neat idea. What (affordable) MIDI controller do you like?"

I use a Korg NanoKontrol. The one here with the sliders and knobs:

http://www.korg.co.uk/products/software_controllers/nano2/sc_nano2.php

I'm not sure how much it is but it's cheap compared to what there used to be. It's very small and portable so ideal for Gimp. It communicates with alsa (via USB). You have a small GUI app called aconnectgui where you can see the Korg output and Gimp input. You just connect them up. I actually do it from command but that's because I couldn't find aconnectgui in the Arch repo. Here's some info from the Ubuntu site:

https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/applications/precise/aconnectgui/

One problem is that you need the Korg editor (Windows or OSX) to change MIDI functions on the NanoKontrol. That should work via wine but I didn't try that. The reason you have to change some things is that by default some of the switches are momentary or maybe that wasn't the problem. I can't remember exactly but I had to edit a few things. I'm not on Linux at the moment to look at it exactly but you'll find MIDI under Input controllers in Gimp. You have a vast choice of Gimp parameters and you set them by choosing the one you want then moving the appropriate knob on the controller to set it to the parameter. There is stacks you can do. I like to set it to change colours i.e. one knob will increase red etc. Selecting colours, values etc in the colour wheel suddenly starts to become obsolete. Actually, thinking about that particular function, I think that was why I had to edit the Korg via its OSX(or Windows) editor. I think you need that particular value to not go to zero value. Probably I should document all this somewhere properly. The huge advantage over a graphics tablet slider is that MIDI has continuous controllers. This means you move the knobs and sliders up and down to exact values. You are not sending a keyboard command. It's really quite ingenious whoever thought of adding that to Gimp and I bet hardly anyone uses it.

even more so since this really interesting piece of information got buried in one of those threads i really cannot justify spending my time to wade through such slurry :)

I'm really curious about the following passage:

[..] I like to set it to change
colours i.e. one knob will increase red etc. Selecting colours, values etc in the colour wheel suddenly starts to become obsolete.

How is your setup working here?
Can you still you use the colour wheel (via mouse/tablet) in parallel? How do you keep the slider/knob position in sync with the current color then?

Is there a kind of adjustment that the controller offers the most advantage for you? I'm thinking here of relative vs. absolute adjustments, that is - a "bit more of blue", or a little darker vs, - all RGB sliders down: instantly gives black; all three sliders at 50%: perfect mid gray.

I mean, one compelling advantage of using the color wheel is that you can see all available colors in advance, before choosing one of them.

best regards, peter

Ryan Stark
2012-09-13 10:25:52 UTC (over 1 year ago)

MIDI controllers for controlling brush size and colors [was: Save Export Complaints]

Hi.

I've not been on my Linux system with Gimp for a bit so Ideally I need to work through exactly how I set that up and how I'm using it. The aconnectgui is how to see and make the connections but in actual fact it's best to do that from command. The connection isn't remembered so rather than set it up via aconnectgui I just run a command every time I start Gimp.

As for the colour adjustments. You turn knobs to change colours but you see that colour changing on the colour wheel and can still select there anyway, if you want. It can be used to make small colour changes as you paint or values, opacity, whatever you want. Brush size is an obvious one. You can literally change stuff as you paint a stroke but that can end up a bit glitchy. One problem with Gimp 2.8 is that the top size of the brush is far too big. If you compile from scratch you can change that. This needs to be mentioned in the Gimp developer list. It's also possible to have UI to set that largest size of brush so it's not too big. I've seen the code that needs added to do that. This all needs to be better sorted out to make Gimp more ideal for painting.These are simple changes that need to be in Gimp. Changing it and compiling is too much trouble.

All the functions that can be mapped to keyboard can be mapped to MIDI except the MIDI has continuous controller meaning instead of one key command ton say make a brush bigger you have values from 0-127. Obviously this is better. I mentioned that with colour I think you need to set the controller to not go to value 0. I'll have to confirm that but I think value 0 for a colour causes it to turn all colours to 0 or something similar. There is some kind of problem with that. I think it needs to be 1-127.

Maybe some other people can have a go with this. Any piece of modern music gear tends to have MIDI so if you've got any keyboard or whatever you can test this or use software that can send MIDI to test it. An example would be ZynAddSubFX. That should show up at ALSA and it should have some MIDI out function (I Think). This would obviously be useless but can used used just as a test. Until I get back into Gimp for painting again, I can't explain everything.

On 12 September 2012 18:49, yahvuu wrote:

Hello Ryan,

Am 12.09.2012 15:25, schrieb Ryan Stark:

[..] Gimp can be hooked up to a MIDI controller for controlling brush sizes or anything else. This is a superb feature. You can buy a little MIDI controller with lots of knobs and sliders. VASTLY superior to sliders on graphics tablets.

Und Am 12.09.2012 18:31, schrieb Ryan Stark:

"Now that's a really neat idea. What (affordable) MIDI controller do you like?"

I use a Korg NanoKontrol. The one here with the sliders and knobs:

http://www.korg.co.uk/products/software_controllers/nano2/sc_nano2.php

I'm not sure how much it is but it's cheap compared to what there used to be. It's very small and portable so ideal for Gimp. It communicates with alsa (via USB). You have a small GUI app called aconnectgui where you can see the Korg output and Gimp input. You just connect them up. I actually do it from command but that's because I couldn't find aconnectgui in the Arch repo. Here's some info from the Ubuntu site:

https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/applications/precise/aconnectgui/

One problem is that you need the Korg editor (Windows or OSX) to change MIDI functions on the NanoKontrol. That should work via wine but I didn't try that. The reason you have to change some things is that by default some of the switches are momentary or maybe that wasn't the problem. I can't remember exactly but I had to edit a few things. I'm not on Linux at the moment to look at it exactly but you'll find MIDI under Input controllers in Gimp. You have a vast choice of Gimp parameters and you set them by choosing the one you want then moving the appropriate knob on the controller to set it to the parameter. There is stacks you can do. I like to set it to change colours i.e. one knob will increase red etc. Selecting colours, values etc in the colour wheel suddenly starts to become obsolete. Actually, thinking about that particular function, I think that was why I had to edit the Korg via its OSX(or Windows) editor. I think you need that particular value to not go to zero value. Probably I should document all this somewhere properly. The huge advantage over a graphics tablet slider is that MIDI has continuous controllers. This means you move the knobs and sliders up and down to exact values. You are not sending a keyboard command. It's really quite ingenious whoever thought of adding that to Gimp and I bet hardly anyone uses it.

even more so since this really interesting piece of information got buried in one of
those threads i really cannot justify spending my time to wade through such slurry :)

I'm really curious about the following passage:

[..] I like to set it to change
colours i.e. one knob will increase red etc. Selecting colours, values etc in the colour wheel suddenly starts to become obsolete.

How is your setup working here?
Can you still you use the colour wheel (via mouse/tablet) in parallel? How do you keep the slider/knob position in sync with the current color then?

Is there a kind of adjustment that the controller offers the most advantage for you?
I'm thinking here of relative vs. absolute adjustments, that is - a "bit more of blue", or a little darker vs, - all RGB sliders down: instantly gives black; all three sliders at 50%: perfect mid gray.

I mean, one compelling advantage of using the color wheel is that you can see all available colors in
advance, before choosing one of them.

best regards, peter

Alexandre Prokoudine
2012-09-13 10:35:07 UTC (over 1 year ago)

MIDI controllers for controlling brush size and colors [was: Save Export Complaints]

On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Ryan Stark wrote:

I've not been on my Linux system with Gimp for a bit so Ideally I need to work through exactly how I set that up and how I'm using it. The aconnectgui is how to see and make the connections but in actual fact it's best to do that from command. The connection isn't remembered so rather than set it up via aconnectgui I just run a command every time I start Gimp.

We just need to patch GIMP to support JACK and Jack Session :)

(as well as half a dozen of other session managers)

Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org

Ryan Stark
2012-09-13 10:36:26 UTC (over 1 year ago)

MIDI controllers for controlling brush size and colors [was: Save Export Complaints]

There's a video on youtube of somebody doing it but I don't recommend pushing it this far i.e. changing as you actually make a stroke. That can get a bit glitchy. Also, a keyboard isn't ideal. You want something like that Korg. Before the Korg NanoKontrol, there wasn't anything as ideal but that machine is cheap, small and perfect for the job.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Llu3WGbJpzc

On 13 September 2012 11:25, Ryan Stark wrote:

Hi.

I've not been on my Linux system with Gimp for a bit so Ideally I need to work through exactly how I set that up and how I'm using it. The aconnectgui is how to see and make the connections but in actual fact it's best to do that from command. The connection isn't remembered so rather than set it up via aconnectgui I just run a command every time I start Gimp.

As for the colour adjustments. You turn knobs to change colours but you see that colour changing on the colour wheel and can still select there anyway, if you want. It can be used to make small colour changes as you paint or values, opacity, whatever you want. Brush size is an obvious one. You can literally change stuff as you paint a stroke but that can end up a bit glitchy. One problem with Gimp 2.8 is that the top size of the brush is far too big. If you compile from scratch you can change that. This needs to be mentioned in the Gimp developer list. It's also possible to have UI to set that largest size of brush so it's not too big. I've seen the code that needs added to do that. This all needs to be better sorted out to make Gimp more ideal for painting.These are simple changes that need to be in Gimp. Changing it and compiling is too much trouble.

All the functions that can be mapped to keyboard can be mapped to MIDI except the MIDI has continuous controller meaning instead of one key command ton say make a brush bigger you have values from 0-127. Obviously this is better. I mentioned that with colour I think you need to set the controller to not go to value 0. I'll have to confirm that but I think value 0 for a colour causes it to turn all colours to 0 or something similar. There is some kind of problem with that. I think it needs to be 1-127.

Maybe some other people can have a go with this. Any piece of modern music gear tends to have MIDI so if you've got any keyboard or whatever you can test this or use software that can send MIDI to test it. An example would be ZynAddSubFX. That should show up at ALSA and it should have some MIDI out function (I Think). This would obviously be useless but can used used just as a test. Until I get back into Gimp for painting again, I can't explain everything.

On 12 September 2012 18:49, yahvuu wrote:

Hello Ryan,

Am 12.09.2012 15:25, schrieb Ryan Stark:

[..] Gimp can be hooked up to a MIDI controller for controlling brush sizes or anything else. This is a superb feature. You can buy a little MIDI controller with lots of knobs and sliders. VASTLY superior to sliders on graphics tablets.

Und Am 12.09.2012 18:31, schrieb Ryan Stark:

"Now that's a really neat idea. What (affordable) MIDI controller do you like?"

I use a Korg NanoKontrol. The one here with the sliders and knobs:

http://www.korg.co.uk/products/software_controllers/nano2/sc_nano2.php

I'm not sure how much it is but it's cheap compared to what there used to be. It's very small and portable so ideal for Gimp. It communicates with alsa (via USB). You have a small GUI app called aconnectgui where you can see the Korg output and Gimp input. You just connect them up. I actually do it from command but that's because I couldn't find aconnectgui in the Arch repo. Here's some info from the Ubuntu site:

https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/applications/precise/aconnectgui/

One problem is that you need the Korg editor (Windows or OSX) to change MIDI functions on the NanoKontrol. That should work via wine but I didn't try that. The reason you have to change some things is that by default some of the switches are momentary or maybe that wasn't the problem. I can't remember exactly but I had to edit a few things. I'm not on Linux at the moment to look at it exactly but you'll find MIDI under Input controllers in Gimp. You have a vast choice of Gimp parameters and you set them by choosing the one you want then moving the appropriate knob on the controller to set it to the parameter. There is stacks you can do. I like to set it to change colours i.e. one knob will increase red etc. Selecting colours, values etc in the colour wheel suddenly starts to become obsolete. Actually, thinking about that particular function, I think that was why I had to edit the Korg via its OSX(or Windows) editor. I think you need that particular value to not go to zero value. Probably I should document all this somewhere properly. The huge advantage over a graphics tablet slider is that MIDI has continuous controllers. This means you move the knobs and sliders up and down to exact values. You are not sending a keyboard command. It's really quite ingenious whoever thought of adding that to Gimp and I bet hardly anyone uses it.

even more so since this really interesting piece of information got buried in one of
those threads i really cannot justify spending my time to wade through such slurry :)

I'm really curious about the following passage:

[..] I like to set it to change
colours i.e. one knob will increase red etc. Selecting colours, values etc in the colour wheel suddenly starts to become obsolete.

How is your setup working here?
Can you still you use the colour wheel (via mouse/tablet) in parallel? How do you keep the slider/knob position in sync with the current color then?

Is there a kind of adjustment that the controller offers the most advantage for you?
I'm thinking here of relative vs. absolute adjustments, that is - a "bit more of blue", or a little darker vs, - all RGB sliders down: instantly gives black; all three sliders at 50%: perfect mid gray.

I mean, one compelling advantage of using the color wheel is that you can see all available colors in
advance, before choosing one of them.

best regards, peter

Ryan Stark
2012-09-13 10:46:36 UTC (over 1 year ago)

MIDI controllers for controlling brush size and colors [was: Save Export Complaints]

Yes, you could connect through Jack but Hardware will show up at ALSA so I don't think Jack would actually be a benefit for Gimp use but maybe you'd need this to test with software? ZynaddSubFX can connect via ALSA or Jack (or use Yoshimi) but can you then connect to GIMP somehow maybe via the Jack connection UI where ALSA and Jack MIDI show up? I'll have to leave this for others to test. I'm not on my Linux graphics machine at the moment. I'm on OSX.

On 13 September 2012 11:36, Ryan Stark wrote:

There's a video on youtube of somebody doing it but I don't recommend pushing it this far i.e. changing as you actually make a stroke. That can get a bit glitchy. Also, a keyboard isn't ideal. You want something like that Korg. Before the Korg NanoKontrol, there wasn't anything as ideal but that machine is cheap, small and perfect for the job.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Llu3WGbJpzc

On 13 September 2012 11:25, Ryan Stark wrote:

Hi.

I've not been on my Linux system with Gimp for a bit so Ideally I need to work through exactly how I set that up and how I'm using it. The aconnectgui is how to see and make the connections but in actual fact it's best to do that from command. The connection isn't remembered so rather than set it up via aconnectgui I just run a command every time I start Gimp.

As for the colour adjustments. You turn knobs to change colours but you see that colour changing on the colour wheel and can still select there anyway, if you want. It can be used to make small colour changes as you paint or values, opacity, whatever you want. Brush size is an obvious one. You can literally change stuff as you paint a stroke but that can end up a bit glitchy. One problem with Gimp 2.8 is that the top size of the brush is far too big. If you compile from scratch you can change that. This needs to be mentioned in the Gimp developer list. It's also possible to have UI to set that largest size of brush so it's not too big. I've seen the code that needs added to do that. This all needs to be better sorted out to make Gimp more ideal for painting.These are simple changes that need to be in Gimp. Changing it and compiling is too much trouble.

All the functions that can be mapped to keyboard can be mapped to MIDI except the MIDI has continuous controller meaning instead of one key command ton say make a brush bigger you have values from 0-127. Obviously this is better. I mentioned that with colour I think you need to set the controller to not go to value 0. I'll have to confirm that but I think value 0 for a colour causes it to turn all colours to 0 or something similar. There is some kind of problem with that. I think it needs to be 1-127.

Maybe some other people can have a go with this. Any piece of modern music gear tends to have MIDI so if you've got any keyboard or whatever you can test this or use software that can send MIDI to test it. An example would be ZynAddSubFX. That should show up at ALSA and it should have some MIDI out function (I Think). This would obviously be useless but can used used just as a test. Until I get back into Gimp for painting again, I can't explain everything.

On 12 September 2012 18:49, yahvuu wrote:

Hello Ryan,

Am 12.09.2012 15:25, schrieb Ryan Stark:

[..] Gimp can be hooked up to a MIDI controller for controlling brush sizes or anything else. This is a superb feature. You can buy a little MIDI controller with lots of knobs and sliders. VASTLY superior to sliders on graphics tablets.

Und Am 12.09.2012 18:31, schrieb Ryan Stark:

"Now that's a really neat idea. What (affordable) MIDI controller do you like?"

I use a Korg NanoKontrol. The one here with the sliders and knobs:

http://www.korg.co.uk/products/software_controllers/nano2/sc_nano2.php

I'm not sure how much it is but it's cheap compared to what there used to be. It's very small and portable so ideal for Gimp. It communicates with alsa (via USB). You have a small GUI app called aconnectgui where you can see the Korg output and Gimp input. You just connect them up. I actually do it from command but that's because I couldn't find aconnectgui in the Arch repo. Here's some info from the Ubuntu site:

https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/applications/precise/aconnectgui/

One problem is that you need the Korg editor (Windows or OSX) to change MIDI functions on the NanoKontrol. That should work via wine but I didn't try that. The reason you have to change some things is that by default some of the switches are momentary or maybe that wasn't the problem. I can't remember exactly but I had to edit a few things. I'm not on Linux at the moment to look at it exactly but you'll find MIDI under Input controllers in Gimp. You have a vast choice of Gimp parameters and you set them by choosing the one you want then moving the appropriate knob on the controller to set it to the parameter. There is stacks you can do. I like to set it to change colours i.e. one knob will increase red etc. Selecting colours, values etc in the colour wheel suddenly starts to become obsolete. Actually, thinking about that particular function, I think that was why I had to edit the Korg via its OSX(or Windows) editor. I think you need that particular value to not go to zero value. Probably I should document all this somewhere properly. The huge advantage over a graphics tablet slider is that MIDI has continuous controllers. This means you move the knobs and sliders up and down to exact values. You are not sending a keyboard command. It's really quite ingenious whoever thought of adding that to Gimp and I bet hardly anyone uses it.

even more so since this really interesting piece of information got buried in one of
those threads i really cannot justify spending my time to wade through such slurry :)

I'm really curious about the following passage:

[..] I like to set it to change
colours i.e. one knob will increase red etc. Selecting colours, values etc in the colour wheel suddenly starts to become obsolete.

How is your setup working here?
Can you still you use the colour wheel (via mouse/tablet) in parallel? How do you keep the slider/knob position in sync with the current color then?

Is there a kind of adjustment that the controller offers the most advantage for you?
I'm thinking here of relative vs. absolute adjustments, that is - a "bit more of blue", or a little darker vs, - all RGB sliders down: instantly gives black; all three sliders at 50%: perfect mid gray.

I mean, one compelling advantage of using the color wheel is that you can see all available colors in
advance, before choosing one of them.

best regards, peter

Alexandre Prokoudine
2012-09-13 10:51:59 UTC (over 1 year ago)

MIDI controllers for controlling brush size and colors [was: Save Export Complaints]

On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 2:46 PM, Ryan Stark wrote:

Yes, you could connect through Jack but Hardware will show up at ALSA so I don't think Jack would actually be a benefit for Gimp use but maybe you'd need this to test with software?

Um, that was more like a joke :)

I think it's entirely possible to create a nice(r) UI for MIDI controllers that would remember your gear and autoconnect depending on the current system (Windows version of GIMP uses DirectSound to provide MIDI features).

Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org

Ryan Stark
2012-09-13 10:53:45 UTC (over 1 year ago)

MIDI controllers for controlling brush size and colors [was: Save Export Complaints]

You can do anything. That's why it's so great. MIDI has continuous controllers and notes. Notes can be mapped as well. Continuous controllers can be set to any value or a button sends that value so say you want a collection of brush sizes, you set a button to send a value anywhere from 0-127 that can be used to set any brush size at the click of a button.

On 13 September 2012 11:46, Ryan Stark wrote:

Yes, you could connect through Jack but Hardware will show up at ALSA so I don't think Jack would actually be a benefit for Gimp use but maybe you'd need this to test with software? ZynaddSubFX can connect via ALSA or Jack (or use Yoshimi) but can you then connect to GIMP somehow maybe via the Jack connection UI where ALSA and Jack MIDI show up? I'll have to leave this for others to test. I'm not on my Linux graphics machine at the moment. I'm on OSX.

On 13 September 2012 11:36, Ryan Stark wrote:

There's a video on youtube of somebody doing it but I don't recommend pushing it this far i.e. changing as you actually make a stroke. That can get a bit glitchy. Also, a keyboard isn't ideal. You want something like that Korg. Before the Korg NanoKontrol, there wasn't anything as ideal but that machine is cheap, small and perfect for the job.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Llu3WGbJpzc

On 13 September 2012 11:25, Ryan Stark wrote:

Hi.

I've not been on my Linux system with Gimp for a bit so Ideally I need to work through exactly how I set that up and how I'm using it. The aconnectgui is how to see and make the connections but in actual fact it's best to do that from command. The connection isn't remembered so rather than set it up via aconnectgui I just run a command every time I start Gimp.

As for the colour adjustments. You turn knobs to change colours but you see that colour changing on the colour wheel and can still select there anyway, if you want. It can be used to make small colour changes as you paint or values, opacity, whatever you want. Brush size is an obvious one. You can literally change stuff as you paint a stroke but that can end up a bit glitchy. One problem with Gimp 2.8 is that the top size of the brush is far too big. If you compile from scratch you can change that. This needs to be mentioned in the Gimp developer list. It's also possible to have UI to set that largest size of brush so it's not too big. I've seen the code that needs added to do that. This all needs to be better sorted out to make Gimp more ideal for painting.These are simple changes that need to be in Gimp. Changing it and compiling is too much trouble.

All the functions that can be mapped to keyboard can be mapped to MIDI except the MIDI has continuous controller meaning instead of one key command ton say make a brush bigger you have values from 0-127. Obviously this is better. I mentioned that with colour I think you need to set the controller to not go to value 0. I'll have to confirm that but I think value 0 for a colour causes it to turn all colours to 0 or something similar. There is some kind of problem with that. I think it needs to be 1-127.

Maybe some other people can have a go with this. Any piece of modern music gear tends to have MIDI so if you've got any keyboard or whatever you can test this or use software that can send MIDI to test it. An example would be ZynAddSubFX. That should show up at ALSA and it should have some MIDI out function (I Think). This would obviously be useless but can used used just as a test. Until I get back into Gimp for painting again, I can't explain everything.

On 12 September 2012 18:49, yahvuu wrote:

Hello Ryan,

Am 12.09.2012 15:25, schrieb Ryan Stark:

[..] Gimp can be hooked up to a MIDI controller for controlling brush sizes or anything else. This is a superb feature. You can buy a little MIDI controller with lots of knobs and sliders. VASTLY superior to sliders on graphics tablets.

Und Am 12.09.2012 18:31, schrieb Ryan Stark:

"Now that's a really neat idea. What (affordable) MIDI controller do you like?"

I use a Korg NanoKontrol. The one here with the sliders and knobs:

http://www.korg.co.uk/products/software_controllers/nano2/sc_nano2.php

I'm not sure how much it is but it's cheap compared to what there used to be. It's very small and portable so ideal for Gimp. It communicates with alsa (via USB). You have a small GUI app called aconnectgui where you can see the Korg output and Gimp input. You just connect them up. I actually do it from command but that's because I couldn't find aconnectgui in the Arch repo. Here's some info from the Ubuntu site:

https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/applications/precise/aconnectgui/

One problem is that you need the Korg editor (Windows or OSX) to change MIDI functions on the NanoKontrol. That should work via wine but I didn't try that. The reason you have to change some things is that by default some of the switches are momentary or maybe that wasn't the problem. I can't remember exactly but I had to edit a few things. I'm not on Linux at the moment to look at it exactly but you'll find MIDI under Input controllers in Gimp. You have a vast choice of Gimp parameters and you set them by choosing the one you want then moving the appropriate knob on the controller to set it to the parameter. There is stacks you can do. I like to set it to change colours i.e. one knob will increase red etc. Selecting colours, values etc in the colour wheel suddenly starts to become obsolete. Actually, thinking about that particular function, I think that was why I had to edit the Korg via its OSX(or Windows) editor. I think you need that particular value to not go to zero value. Probably I should document all this somewhere properly. The huge advantage over a graphics tablet slider is that MIDI has continuous controllers. This means you move the knobs and sliders up and down to exact values. You are not sending a keyboard command. It's really quite ingenious whoever thought of adding that to Gimp and I bet hardly anyone uses it.

even more so since this really interesting piece of information got buried in one of
those threads i really cannot justify spending my time to wade through such slurry :)

I'm really curious about the following passage:

[..] I like to set it to change
colours i.e. one knob will increase red etc. Selecting colours, values etc in the colour wheel suddenly starts to become obsolete.

How is your setup working here?
Can you still you use the colour wheel (via mouse/tablet) in parallel? How do you keep the slider/knob position in sync with the current color then?

Is there a kind of adjustment that the controller offers the most advantage for you?
I'm thinking here of relative vs. absolute adjustments, that is - a "bit more of blue", or a little darker vs, - all RGB sliders down: instantly gives black; all three sliders at 50%: perfect mid gray.

I mean, one compelling advantage of using the color wheel is that you can see all available colors in
advance, before choosing one of them.

best regards, peter

Ryan Stark
2012-09-13 11:07:45 UTC (over 1 year ago)

MIDI controllers for controlling brush size and colors [was: Save Export Complaints]

You need to set up the Korg using Windows software to get it all exactly as you want. That should work in wine. Gimp will remember all the mappings but the one problem is that Gimp doesn't remember the connection so you have to connect the ALSA output of the MIDI controller to Gimp's input after starting Gimp. This isn't difficult though. It's simply the connection posts number and MIDI channels. One command can do that. That's a bit easier than opening the GUI to be honest.

One benefit of using the MIDI controller to adjust colour is that you can create minor adjustments of colour constantly which helps with the fact that Gimp doesn't blend paint on the canvas. To be honest though, Photoshop didn't have that feature for ages and I didn't see it stopping great art in Photoshop. A lot of great Photoshop artists still generally don't use paint blending because they are so used to not having that feature in the past. It's a very over rated feature. It just seems very cool to begin with if you try in it Krita or Mypaint. If you can paint or draw, the lack of that feature is not going to stop you making great paintings. I have been building up a large collection of brushes in Gimp. The default ones were very poor. 2.8 is better but still, I don't think the full power of Gimps brushes is utilised by most people. I find that in Krita and especially Mypaint (although there is a great procedural aspect to the brushes in that app) you can't create as cool brushes as you can in Gimp. Gimp also understands Wacom pens that rotate. Another largely unknown feature (if you have a pen that sends rotate info).

Gimp is really a seriously underrated app. Go check out any brilliant art done in Photoshop and Gimp can do all of that easily.

On 13 September 2012 11:53, Ryan Stark wrote:

You can do anything. That's why it's so great. MIDI has continuous controllers and notes. Notes can be mapped as well. Continuous controllers can be set to any value or a button sends that value so say you want a collection of brush sizes, you set a button to send a value anywhere from 0-127 that can be used to set any brush size at the click of a button.

On 13 September 2012 11:46, Ryan Stark wrote:

Yes, you could connect through Jack but Hardware will show up at ALSA so I don't think Jack would actually be a benefit for Gimp use but maybe you'd need this to test with software? ZynaddSubFX can connect via ALSA or Jack (or use Yoshimi) but can you then connect to GIMP somehow maybe via the Jack connection UI where ALSA and Jack MIDI show up? I'll have to leave this for others to test. I'm not on my Linux graphics machine at the moment. I'm on OSX.

On 13 September 2012 11:36, Ryan Stark wrote:

There's a video on youtube of somebody doing it but I don't recommend pushing it this far i.e. changing as you actually make a stroke. That can get a bit glitchy. Also, a keyboard isn't ideal. You want something like that Korg. Before the Korg NanoKontrol, there wasn't anything as ideal but that machine is cheap, small and perfect for the job.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Llu3WGbJpzc

On 13 September 2012 11:25, Ryan Stark wrote:

Hi.

I've not been on my Linux system with Gimp for a bit so Ideally I need to work through exactly how I set that up and how I'm using it. The aconnectgui is how to see and make the connections but in actual fact it's best to do that from command. The connection isn't remembered so rather than set it up via aconnectgui I just run a command every time I start Gimp.

As for the colour adjustments. You turn knobs to change colours but you see that colour changing on the colour wheel and can still select there anyway, if you want. It can be used to make small colour changes as you paint or values, opacity, whatever you want. Brush size is an obvious one. You can literally change stuff as you paint a stroke but that can end up a bit glitchy. One problem with Gimp 2.8 is that the top size of the brush is far too big. If you compile from scratch you can change that. This needs to be mentioned in the Gimp developer list. It's also possible to have UI to set that largest size of brush so it's not too big. I've seen the code that needs added to do that. This all needs to be better sorted out to make Gimp more ideal for painting.These are simple changes that need to be in Gimp. Changing it and compiling is too much trouble.

All the functions that can be mapped to keyboard can be mapped to MIDI except the MIDI has continuous controller meaning instead of one key command ton say make a brush bigger you have values from 0-127. Obviously this is better. I mentioned that with colour I think you need to set the controller to not go to value 0. I'll have to confirm that but I think value 0 for a colour causes it to turn all colours to 0 or something similar. There is some kind of problem with that. I think it needs to be 1-127.

Maybe some other people can have a go with this. Any piece of modern music gear tends to have MIDI so if you've got any keyboard or whatever you can test this or use software that can send MIDI to test it. An example would be ZynAddSubFX. That should show up at ALSA and it should have some MIDI out function (I Think). This would obviously be useless but can used used just as a test. Until I get back into Gimp for painting again, I can't explain everything.

On 12 September 2012 18:49, yahvuu wrote:

Hello Ryan,

Am 12.09.2012 15:25, schrieb Ryan Stark:

[..] Gimp can be hooked up to a MIDI controller for controlling brush sizes or anything else. This is a superb feature. You can buy a little MIDI controller with lots of knobs and sliders. VASTLY superior to sliders on graphics tablets.

Und Am 12.09.2012 18:31, schrieb Ryan Stark:

"Now that's a really neat idea. What (affordable) MIDI controller do you like?"

I use a Korg NanoKontrol. The one here with the sliders and knobs:

http://www.korg.co.uk/products/software_controllers/nano2/sc_nano2.php

I'm not sure how much it is but it's cheap compared to what there used to be. It's very small and portable so ideal for Gimp. It communicates with alsa (via USB). You have a small GUI app called aconnectgui where you can see the Korg output and Gimp input. You just connect them up. I actually do it from command but that's because I couldn't find aconnectgui in the Arch repo. Here's some info from the Ubuntu site:

https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/applications/precise/aconnectgui/

One problem is that you need the Korg editor (Windows or OSX) to change MIDI functions on the NanoKontrol. That should work via wine but I didn't try that. The reason you have to change some things is that by default some of the switches are momentary or maybe that wasn't the problem. I can't remember exactly but I had to edit a few things. I'm not on Linux at the moment to look at it exactly but you'll find MIDI under Input controllers in Gimp. You have a vast choice of Gimp parameters and you set them by choosing the one you want then moving the appropriate knob on the controller to set it to the parameter. There is stacks you can do. I like to set it to change colours i.e. one knob will increase red etc. Selecting colours, values etc in the colour wheel suddenly starts to become obsolete. Actually, thinking about that particular function, I think that was why I had to edit the Korg via its OSX(or Windows) editor. I think you need that particular value to not go to zero value. Probably I should document all this somewhere properly. The huge advantage over a graphics tablet slider is that MIDI has continuous controllers. This means you move the knobs and sliders up and down to exact values. You are not sending a keyboard command. It's really quite ingenious whoever thought of adding that to Gimp and I bet hardly anyone uses it.

even more so since this really interesting piece of information got buried in one of
those threads i really cannot justify spending my time to wade through such slurry :)

I'm really curious about the following passage:

[..] I like to set it to change
colours i.e. one knob will increase red etc. Selecting colours, values etc in the colour wheel suddenly starts to become obsolete.

How is your setup working here?
Can you still you use the colour wheel (via mouse/tablet) in parallel? How do you keep the slider/knob position in sync with the current color then?

Is there a kind of adjustment that the controller offers the most advantage for you?
I'm thinking here of relative vs. absolute adjustments, that is - a "bit more of blue", or a little darker vs, - all RGB sliders down: instantly gives black; all three sliders at 50%: perfect mid gray.

I mean, one compelling advantage of using the color wheel is that you can see all available colors in
advance, before choosing one of them.

best regards, peter

Ryan Stark
2012-09-13 11:16:09 UTC (over 1 year ago)

MIDI controllers for controlling brush size and colors [was: Save Export Complaints]

So can you use MIDI in Windows as well? I've never tried that. I'm always assuming Gimp users are Linux but of course that isn't the case. I'm sure I've read there is a problem with it on OSX though. I don't like Gimp OSX. Often there are problems. I stopped using it on OSX.

On 13 September 2012 12:07, Ryan Stark wrote:

You need to set up the Korg using Windows software to get it all exactly as you want. That should work in wine. Gimp will remember all the mappings but the one problem is that Gimp doesn't remember the connection so you have to connect the ALSA output of the MIDI controller to Gimp's input after starting Gimp. This isn't difficult though. It's simply the connection posts number and MIDI channels. One command can do that. That's a bit easier than opening the GUI to be honest.

One benefit of using the MIDI controller to adjust colour is that you can create minor adjustments of colour constantly which helps with the fact that Gimp doesn't blend paint on the canvas. To be honest though, Photoshop didn't have that feature for ages and I didn't see it stopping great art in Photoshop. A lot of great Photoshop artists still generally don't use paint blending because they are so used to not having that feature in the past. It's a very over rated feature. It just seems very cool to begin with if you try in it Krita or Mypaint. If you can paint or draw, the lack of that feature is not going to stop you making great paintings. I have been building up a large collection of brushes in Gimp. The default ones were very poor. 2.8 is better but still, I don't think the full power of Gimps brushes is utilised by most people. I find that in Krita and especially Mypaint (although there is a great procedural aspect to the brushes in that app) you can't create as cool brushes as you can in Gimp. Gimp also understands Wacom pens that rotate. Another largely unknown feature (if you have a pen that sends rotate info).

Gimp is really a seriously underrated app. Go check out any brilliant art done in Photoshop and Gimp can do all of that easily.

On 13 September 2012 11:53, Ryan Stark wrote:

You can do anything. That's why it's so great. MIDI has continuous controllers and notes. Notes can be mapped as well. Continuous controllers can be set to any value or a button sends that value so say you want a collection of brush sizes, you set a button to send a value anywhere from 0-127 that can be used to set any brush size at the click of a button.

On 13 September 2012 11:46, Ryan Stark wrote:

Yes, you could connect through Jack but Hardware will show up at ALSA so I don't think Jack would actually be a benefit for Gimp use but maybe you'd need this to test with software? ZynaddSubFX can connect via ALSA or Jack (or use Yoshimi) but can you then connect to GIMP somehow maybe via the Jack connection UI where ALSA and Jack MIDI show up? I'll have to leave this for others to test. I'm not on my Linux graphics machine at the moment. I'm on OSX.

On 13 September 2012 11:36, Ryan Stark wrote:

There's a video on youtube of somebody doing it but I don't recommend pushing it this far i.e. changing as you actually make a stroke. That can get a bit glitchy. Also, a keyboard isn't ideal. You want something like that Korg. Before the Korg NanoKontrol, there wasn't anything as ideal but that machine is cheap, small and perfect for the job.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Llu3WGbJpzc

On 13 September 2012 11:25, Ryan Stark wrote:

Hi.

I've not been on my Linux system with Gimp for a bit so Ideally I need to work through exactly how I set that up and how I'm using it. The aconnectgui is how to see and make the connections but in actual fact it's best to do that from command. The connection isn't remembered so rather than set it up via aconnectgui I just run a command every time I start Gimp.

As for the colour adjustments. You turn knobs to change colours but you see that colour changing on the colour wheel and can still select there anyway, if you want. It can be used to make small colour changes as you paint or values, opacity, whatever you want. Brush size is an obvious one. You can literally change stuff as you paint a stroke but that can end up a bit glitchy. One problem with Gimp 2.8 is that the top size of the brush is far too big. If you compile from scratch you can change that. This needs to be mentioned in the Gimp developer list. It's also possible to have UI to set that largest size of brush so it's not too big. I've seen the code that needs added to do that. This all needs to be better sorted out to make Gimp more ideal for painting.These are simple changes that need to be in Gimp. Changing it and compiling is too much trouble.

All the functions that can be mapped to keyboard can be mapped to MIDI except the MIDI has continuous controller meaning instead of one key command ton say make a brush bigger you have values from 0-127. Obviously this is better. I mentioned that with colour I think you need to set the controller to not go to value 0. I'll have to confirm that but I think value 0 for a colour causes it to turn all colours to 0 or something similar. There is some kind of problem with that. I think it needs to be 1-127.

Maybe some other people can have a go with this. Any piece of modern music gear tends to have MIDI so if you've got any keyboard or whatever you can test this or use software that can send MIDI to test it. An example would be ZynAddSubFX. That should show up at ALSA and it should have some MIDI out function (I Think). This would obviously be useless but can used used just as a test. Until I get back into Gimp for painting again, I can't explain everything.

On 12 September 2012 18:49, yahvuu wrote:

Hello Ryan,

Am 12.09.2012 15:25, schrieb Ryan Stark:

[..] Gimp can be hooked up to a MIDI controller for controlling brush sizes or anything else. This is a superb feature. You can buy a little MIDI controller with lots of knobs and sliders. VASTLY superior to sliders on graphics tablets.

Und Am 12.09.2012 18:31, schrieb Ryan Stark:

"Now that's a really neat idea. What (affordable) MIDI controller do you like?"

I use a Korg NanoKontrol. The one here with the sliders and knobs:

http://www.korg.co.uk/products/software_controllers/nano2/sc_nano2.php

I'm not sure how much it is but it's cheap compared to what there used to be. It's very small and portable so ideal for Gimp. It communicates with alsa (via USB). You have a small GUI app called aconnectgui where you can see the Korg output and Gimp input. You just connect them up. I actually do it from command but that's because I couldn't find aconnectgui in the Arch repo. Here's some info from the Ubuntu site:

https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/applications/precise/aconnectgui/

One problem is that you need the Korg editor (Windows or OSX) to change MIDI functions on the NanoKontrol. That should work via wine but I didn't try that. The reason you have to change some things is that by default some of the switches are momentary or maybe that wasn't the problem. I can't remember exactly but I had to edit a few things. I'm not on Linux at the moment to look at it exactly but you'll find MIDI under Input controllers in Gimp. You have a vast choice of Gimp parameters and you set them by choosing the one you want then moving the appropriate knob on the controller to set it to the parameter. There is stacks you can do. I like to set it to change colours i.e. one knob will increase red etc. Selecting colours, values etc in the colour wheel suddenly starts to become obsolete. Actually, thinking about that particular function, I think that was why I had to edit the Korg via its OSX(or Windows) editor. I think you need that particular value to not go to zero value. Probably I should document all this somewhere properly. The huge advantage over a graphics tablet slider is that MIDI has continuous controllers. This means you move the knobs and sliders up and down to exact values. You are not sending a keyboard command. It's really quite ingenious whoever thought of adding that to Gimp and I bet hardly anyone uses it.

even more so since this really interesting piece of information got buried in one of
those threads i really cannot justify spending my time to wade through such slurry :)

I'm really curious about the following passage:

[..] I like to set it to change
colours i.e. one knob will increase red etc. Selecting colours, values etc in the colour wheel suddenly starts to become obsolete.

How is your setup working here?
Can you still you use the colour wheel (via mouse/tablet) in parallel? How do you keep the slider/knob position in sync with the current color then?

Is there a kind of adjustment that the controller offers the most advantage for you?
I'm thinking here of relative vs. absolute adjustments, that is - a "bit more of blue", or a little darker vs, - all RGB sliders down: instantly gives black; all three sliders at 50%: perfect mid gray.

I mean, one compelling advantage of using the color wheel is that you can see all available colors in
advance, before choosing one of them.

best regards, peter

Joao S. O. Bueno
2012-09-13 11:17:22 UTC (over 1 year ago)

MIDI controllers for controlling brush size and colors [was: Save Export Complaints]

On 13 September 2012 07:25, Ryan Stark wrote:

One problem with Gimp 2.8 is that the top size of the brush is far too big. If you compile from scratch you can change that. This needs to be mentioned in the Gimp developer list. It's also possible to have UI to set that largest size of brush so it's not too big. I've seen the code that needs added to do that. This all needs to be better sorted out to make Gimp more ideal for painting.These are simple changes that need to be in Gimp. Changing it and compiling is too much trouble.

Oh well...we used to have logarithmic brush size control. Now, you have a linear space ranging from 0 to 1000.00 - if you have to control the brush size
using a 2 cm course MIDI pedal, it simply won' t do -out of the box - But I think it could be controled using the dynamics curves: create a new brush dynamics, map the input control to brush size there, and edit
its curve so that the maximum size (right) is at roughly 10% of the graphic height.

js
->

Ryan Stark
2012-09-13 11:26:48 UTC (over 1 year ago)

MIDI controllers for controlling brush size and colors [was: Save Export Complaints]

Yes, exactly, that is the problem. You can change the default brush largest size before compiling. Presently it's too large and this needs discussed with developers. I found somewhere how to change that code and it's very easy to do. Just find that one value and change it but also some UI that can be added to alter that largest brush size from Gimps UI. My Gimp is currently installed in the standard way. Next time I use it for painting I will compile and I'll document how to do that. At present, I can't even remember how to do that. I'm not even writing this from Linux. Somewhere on my Linux machine is a note on how to do it. This needs changing on Gimp. Whether you are using MIDI or a tablet slider, the largest size of brush is ludicrous. It effects all the brush sizing - stepping it up etc. It's no good.

On 13 September 2012 12:17, Joao S. O. Bueno wrote:

On 13 September 2012 07:25, Ryan Stark wrote:

One problem with Gimp 2.8 is that the top size of the brush is far too big. If you compile from scratch you can change that. This needs to be mentioned in the Gimp developer list. It's also possible to have UI to set that largest size of brush so it's not too big. I've seen the code that needs added to do that. This all needs to be better sorted out to make Gimp more ideal for painting.These are simple changes that need to be in Gimp. Changing it and compiling is too much trouble.

Oh well...we used to have logarithmic brush size control. Now, you have a linear space ranging from 0 to 1000.00 - if you have to control the brush size
using a 2 cm course MIDI pedal, it simply won' t do -out of the box - But I think it could be controled using the dynamics curves: create a new brush dynamics, map the input control to brush size there, and edit
its curve so that the maximum size (right) is at roughly 10% of the graphic height.

js
->

Ryan Stark
2012-09-13 11:39:44 UTC (over 1 year ago)

MIDI controllers for controlling brush size and colors [was: Save Export Complaints]

Ah yes, MIDI pedal. Just another feature here. You can control the brush size with a foot pedal. I do music so have gear like that. Foot pedals are probably over kill for average users though. The Korg Nanokontrol is the ideal unit for most users but yeah, that largest brush size thing needs changing.

Just another insane thing. MIDI can be sequenced so you can run a sequencer and have say red pulsing into blue or brush size swelling up and down. I'd suggest that's going to far though. It gets a bit glitchy with some features if it's changing as you do a stroke. This is the cool thing with open source software though. Some mad features get added. Photoshop will never get MIDI, that's for sure.

On 13 September 2012 12:26, Ryan Stark wrote:

Yes, exactly, that is the problem. You can change the default brush largest size before compiling. Presently it's too large and this needs discussed with developers. I found somewhere how to change that code and it's very easy to do. Just find that one value and change it but also some UI that can be added to alter that largest brush size from Gimps UI. My Gimp is currently installed in the standard way. Next time I use it for painting I will compile and I'll document how to do that. At present, I can't even remember how to do that. I'm not even writing this from Linux. Somewhere on my Linux machine is a note on how to do it. This needs changing on Gimp. Whether you are using MIDI or a tablet slider, the largest size of brush is ludicrous. It effects all the brush sizing - stepping it up etc. It's no good.

On 13 September 2012 12:17, Joao S. O. Bueno wrote:

On 13 September 2012 07:25, Ryan Stark wrote:

One problem with Gimp 2.8 is that the top size of the brush is far too big. If you compile from scratch you can change that. This needs to be mentioned in the Gimp developer list. It's also possible to have UI to set that largest size of brush so it's not too big. I've seen the code that needs added to do that. This all needs to be better sorted out to make Gimp more ideal for painting.These are simple changes that need to be in Gimp. Changing it and compiling is too much trouble.

Oh well...we used to have logarithmic brush size control. Now, you have a linear space ranging from 0 to 1000.00 - if you have to control the brush size
using a 2 cm course MIDI pedal, it simply won' t do -out of the box - But I think it could be controled using the dynamics curves: create a new brush dynamics, map the input control to brush size there, and edit
its curve so that the maximum size (right) is at roughly 10% of the graphic height.

js
->

Joao S. O. Bueno
2012-09-13 11:47:17 UTC (over 1 year ago)

MIDI controllers for controlling brush size and colors [was: Save Export Complaints]

On 13 September 2012 08:26, Ryan Stark wrote:

Yes, exactly, that is the problem. You can change the default brush largest size before compiling. Presently it's too large and this needs discussed with developers. I found somewhere how to change that code and it's very easy to do. Just find that one value and change it but also some UI that can be added to alter that largest brush size from Gimps UI. My Gimp is currently installed in the standard way. Next time I use it for painting I will compile and I'll document how to do that. At present, I can't even remember how to do that. I'm not even writing this from Linux. Somewhere on my Linux machine is a note on how to do it. This needs changing on Gimp. Whether you are using MIDI or a tablet slider, the largest size of brush is ludicrous. It effects all the brush sizing - stepping it up etc. It's no good.

What do you think would be a reasonable largest size multiplier (as opposed to actual brush size)? The current value is 1000.0 - in the previous version it was 10.0.Also, up to GIMP 2.6, feaures that ranged
from 0 to 1000.0 (like actual brush radius) would vary in a logarithmic way, meaning that if you started with a value of 5.0, small variations close to that would make changes from 2 - to 20.0 --if you started at 500.00,
the same small variations could take you to 150.0 - 1000.0

Maybe, simply having the largest brush size as a value in preferences could make up
for all use cases.

On 13 September 2012 12:17, Joao S. O. Bueno wrote:

On 13 September 2012 07:25, Ryan Stark wrote:

One problem with Gimp 2.8 is that the top size of the brush is far too big. If you compile from scratch you can change that. This needs to be mentioned in the Gimp developer list. It's also possible to have UI to set that largest size of brush so it's not too big. I've seen the code that needs added to do that. This all needs to be better sorted out to make Gimp more ideal for painting.These are simple changes that need to be in Gimp. Changing it and compiling is too much trouble.

Oh well...we used to have logarithmic brush size control. Now, you have a linear space ranging from 0 to 1000.00 - if you have to control the brush size
using a 2 cm course MIDI pedal, it simply won' t do -out of the box - But I think it could be controled using the dynamics curves: create a new brush dynamics, map the input control to brush size there,

and

edit
its curve so that the maximum size (right) is at roughly 10% of the

graphic

height.

js
->

Ryan Stark
2012-09-13 12:02:15 UTC (over 1 year ago)

MIDI controllers for controlling brush size and colors [was: Save Export Complaints]

I can't even remember the brush size. I'm not looking at Gimp as present, It's just WAY too large in Gimp 2.8. 2.6 was fine. I've not used 2.6 for years so I can't remember everything about it as far as this logarithmic stuff etc is concerned. I'm not even looking at 2.8. I'm on a Mac. Gimp is on my Linux system. I flit from doing music on the Mac then doing graphics on Linux. I had to move off Linux for music unfortunately. It's not advanced enough yet. Next time I work in it for graphics I'll check all of this out. I'll need to compile Gimp to get the brush smaller. We need to collect info about what needs to be done then Gimp needs to be released in some usable state as far as brush sizing. Most users of Gimp are't going to compile and change code and I can't be bothered with that either. At present the situation will make people go to Mypaint or Krita for painting but in my opinion Gimp is still better.

Largest brush size needs to be adjustable. As you say, this could be done in preferences. When I looked into how to find the largest brush size in code before compiling, I also noticed that this code had info to add UI to change that but I didn't use that. Now I don't know where I found that code change. It's on the net somewhere but I'll look for it again.

On 13 September 2012 12:47, Joao S. O. Bueno wrote:

On 13 September 2012 08:26, Ryan Stark wrote:

Yes, exactly, that is the problem. You can change the default brush largest size before compiling. Presently it's too large and this needs discussed with developers. I found somewhere how to change that code and it's very easy to do. Just find that one value and change it but also some UI that can be added to alter that largest brush size from Gimps UI. My Gimp is currently installed in the standard way. Next time I use it for painting I will compile and I'll document how to do that. At present, I can't even remember how to do that. I'm not even writing this from Linux. Somewhere on my Linux machine is a note on how to do it. This needs changing on Gimp. Whether you are using MIDI or a tablet slider, the largest size of brush is ludicrous. It effects all the brush sizing - stepping it up etc. It's no good.

What do you think would be a reasonable largest size multiplier (as opposed to actual brush size)? The current value is 1000.0 - in the previous version it was 10.0.Also, up to GIMP 2.6, feaures that ranged
from 0 to 1000.0 (like actual brush radius) would vary in a logarithmic way, meaning that if you started with a value of 5.0, small variations close to that would make changes from 2 - to 20.0 --if you started at 500.00,
the same small variations could take you to 150.0 - 1000.0

Maybe, simply having the largest brush size as a value in preferences could make up
for all use cases.

On 13 September 2012 12:17, Joao S. O. Bueno wrote:

On 13 September 2012 07:25, Ryan Stark wrote:

One problem with Gimp 2.8 is that the top size of the brush is far too big. If you compile from scratch you can change that. This needs to be mentioned in the Gimp developer list. It's also possible to have UI to set that largest size of brush so it's not too big. I've seen the code that needs added to do that. This all needs to be better sorted out to make Gimp more ideal for painting.These are simple changes that need to be in Gimp. Changing it and compiling is too much trouble.

Oh well...we used to have logarithmic brush size control. Now, you have a
linear space ranging from 0 to 1000.00 - if you have to control the brush
size
using a 2 cm course MIDI pedal, it simply won' t do -out of the box - But I think it could be controled using the dynamics curves: create a new brush dynamics, map the input control to brush size there, and
edit
its curve so that the maximum size (right) is at roughly 10% of the graphic
height.

js
->

Ryan Stark
2012-09-13 12:27:32 UTC (over 1 year ago)

MIDI controllers for controlling brush size and colors [was: Save Export Complaints]

OK. I'm not looking at Gimp at the moment. I have no source code to compile but before compiling, as far as I can see there is a file called gimppaintoptions.c. In that there are the lines:

GIMP_CONFIG_INSTALL_PROP_DOUBLE (object_class, PROP_BRUSH_SIZE "brush-size", _("Brush Size"), - 1.0, 1000.0, DEFAULT_BRUSH_SIZE, + 1.0, 10000.0, DEFAULT_BRUSH_SIZE, GIMP_PARAM_STATIC_STRINGS);

I'm not sure if these lines have changes made by me or not. It's just a text file I found on a drive I have. It looks like they don't have changes judging by the values?

On 13 September 2012 13:02, Ryan Stark wrote:

I can't even remember the brush size. I'm not looking at Gimp as present, It's just WAY too large in Gimp 2.8. 2.6 was fine. I've not used 2.6 for years so I can't remember everything about it as far as this logarithmic stuff etc is concerned. I'm not even looking at 2.8. I'm on a Mac. Gimp is on my Linux system. I flit from doing music on the Mac then doing graphics on Linux. I had to move off Linux for music unfortunately. It's not advanced enough yet. Next time I work in it for graphics I'll check all of this out. I'll need to compile Gimp to get the brush smaller. We need to collect info about what needs to be done then Gimp needs to be released in some usable state as far as brush sizing. Most users of Gimp are't going to compile and change code and I can't be bothered with that either. At present the situation will make people go to Mypaint or Krita for painting but in my opinion Gimp is still better.

Largest brush size needs to be adjustable. As you say, this could be done in preferences. When I looked into how to find the largest brush size in code before compiling, I also noticed that this code had info to add UI to change that but I didn't use that. Now I don't know where I found that code change. It's on the net somewhere but I'll look for it again.

On 13 September 2012 12:47, Joao S. O. Bueno wrote:

On 13 September 2012 08:26, Ryan Stark wrote:

Yes, exactly, that is the problem. You can change the default brush largest size before compiling. Presently it's too large and this needs discussed with developers. I found somewhere how to change that code and it's very easy to do. Just find that one value and change it but also some UI that can be added to alter that largest brush size from Gimps UI. My Gimp is currently installed in the standard way. Next time I use it for painting I will compile and I'll document how to do that. At present, I can't even remember how to do that. I'm not even writing this from Linux. Somewhere on my Linux machine is a note on how to do it. This needs changing on Gimp. Whether you are using MIDI or a tablet slider, the largest size of brush is ludicrous. It effects all the brush sizing - stepping it up etc. It's no good.

What do you think would be a reasonable largest size multiplier (as opposed to actual brush size)? The current value is 1000.0 - in the previous version it was 10.0.Also, up to GIMP 2.6, feaures that ranged
from 0 to 1000.0 (like actual brush radius) would vary in a logarithmic way, meaning that if you started with a value of 5.0, small variations close to that would make changes from 2 - to 20.0 --if you started at 500.00,
the same small variations could take you to 150.0 - 1000.0

Maybe, simply having the largest brush size as a value in preferences could make up
for all use cases.

On 13 September 2012 12:17, Joao S. O. Bueno wrote:

On 13 September 2012 07:25, Ryan Stark wrote:

One problem with Gimp 2.8 is that the top size of the brush is far too big. If you compile from scratch you can change that. This needs to be mentioned in the Gimp developer list. It's also possible to have UI to set that largest size of brush so it's not too big. I've seen the code that needs added to do that. This all needs to be better sorted out to make Gimp more ideal for painting.These are simple changes that need to be in Gimp. Changing it and compiling is too much trouble.

Oh well...we used to have logarithmic brush size control. Now, you have a
linear space ranging from 0 to 1000.00 - if you have to control the brush
size
using a 2 cm course MIDI pedal, it simply won' t do -out of the box - But I think it could be controled using the dynamics curves: create a new brush dynamics, map the input control to brush size there, and
edit
its curve so that the maximum size (right) is at roughly 10% of the graphic
height.

js
->

Alexandre Prokoudine
2012-09-13 13:08:42 UTC (over 1 year ago)

MIDI controllers for controlling brush size and colors [was: Save Export Complaints]

On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 3:16 PM, Ryan Stark wrote:

So can you use MIDI in Windows as well?

Um, actually, now that I think about it again, I could be wrong.

Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org

Ryan Stark
2012-09-13 15:05:35 UTC (over 1 year ago)

MIDI controllers for controlling brush size and colors [was: Save Export Complaints]

I think I read somewhere that it is possible in Windows but I can't confirm that.

On 13 September 2012 14:08, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:

On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 3:16 PM, Ryan Stark wrote:

So can you use MIDI in Windows as well?

Um, actually, now that I think about it again, I could be wrong.

Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org
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Liam R E Quin
2012-09-13 17:11:45 UTC (over 1 year ago)

MIDI controllers for controlling brush size and colors [was: Save Export Complaints]

On Thu, 2012-09-13 at 08:47 -0300, Joao S. O. Bueno wrote: [...]

What do you think would be a reasonable largest size multiplier (as opposed to actual brush size)? The current value is 1000.0 - in the previous version it was 10.0.

I used to patch GIMP to set the max _size) 1000 because the built-in values were really really tiny when working on 2400dpi print images. I didn't usually need a brush bigger than quarter of an inch for what I was doing. But I loved the logarithmic controls.

Maybe, simply having the largest brush size as a value in preferences could make up for all use cases.

An input device preference to say, "behaves logarithmically" might work. The edit/Input Devices dialogue has a place for a "curve" that might work for this, although I can't test it because it says "this device has no curve" for me even for my USB mouse which is quite rounded actually.

Liam