Hi Everyone,

I have SuSE Linux 9.2 and need to do some simple line drawings I'm doing for a book I'm translating. The site is at:

http://www.geocities.com/klairbab/

I know Microsoft Paint pretty well, so you can imagine my surprise when I opened up gimp.

It looks like a paint program but it's not. I discovered I can draw ellipses and rectangles by "selecting" a path then "stroking" the path.

Pretty neat.

But I'm having a hell of a time selecting and moving objects around.

It looks like each Text object is being placed its own "layer".

What exactly is a layer? Do I select an object by selecting the layer? Do I move the whole layer?
Does it make sense to draw inside a text object? Is it an object at all?

All I need is a monocrome gif, but it would be nice if the resulting drawing were scalable, one which would grow and shrink if the user zooms in using the browser.

Does gimp do that?

I have friends who use AutoCad and are always talking about scalable, vector graphics. AutoCad also uses layers, but I've forgotten exactly what the were.

Can you help?

Thanks.

Joe http://modern-greek-verbs.tripod.com/

Thanks All.

I think I'll stick with Gimp.

The scaleable graphics are not necessary. I'm just diagramming sentences. But the svg xml looks great! What will they think of next?

Gimp looks like alot of fun.

Joe http://modern-greek-verbs.tripod.com/ http://www.geocities.com/klairbab/

On 1/25/06, Roel Schroeven wrote:

Joe Schaffner schreef:

I have friends who use AutoCad and are always talking about scalable, vector graphics. AutoCad also uses layers, but I've forgotten exactly what the were.

AutoCad is a CAD program and uses vector graphics; MS Paint and GIMP are bitmap graphics programs. If you what you want is bitmap graphics, GIMP is an excellent choice, but if it's vector graphics you need, you should check out Inkscape (http://www.inkscape.org) which uses SVG (scalable vector graphics). GIFs are never scalable though; they only contain bitmap graphics (well you can rescale everything of course, but the quality will suffer).

--
If I have been able to see further, it was only because I stood on the shoulders of giants. -- Isaac Newton

Roel Schroeven

I won't be able to get to gimp until the weekend, but I thought I'd answer my own questions, based only on two days experience. Let's see how close I come.

What exactly is a layer?

A drawing is made up of layers. Why? Each layer has attributes which are combined to produce a total visual effect. This means you can add and subtract layers, join them, etc.

Some of these attributes must be the fuzzing, shadowing, smearing, etc.... the artsy stuff, which a newbie like me would not be interested in.

A layer can be transparent. Perfect. When I create a text box I must also be creating a layer.

Do I move the whole layer?

It looks like I can "select" the layer using the Layer dialog and move the entire layer to position the text. I'll try that tomorrow. That would be easier than cutting and pasting regions on the drawing surface, like you do with mspaint, but I got pretty good at it. What bothered me was moving the edges of the layer off screen. I don't like surprises.

Hey! I couldn't find any grid.

I'm used to drawing on a gridded surface. I need the grid to line up components and I can't do that using the rulers on the edges of the drawing surface, and the measuring tools have a learning curve... These learning curves are cumulative.

I noticed one of the layers had a grid like background, don't know how it got there, and I couldn't make it do anything with it, so I gave up.

Do I select an object by selecting the layer?

To be honest, I was expecting to be able to point at an "object" and select it by simply clicking, but it was much more complicated than that, and I wasn't sure exactly what a selection tool was or a path.

There was something called a "moving selection" layer or something. I don't know how I got it, but it had something to do with the selection tools, or the "move" button, which also was highly context-sensitive, so I couldn't do much with that either.

Does it make sense to draw inside a text object?

I can edit the letters in the text box. Boy was the font quality crappy, much worse than the browser. You must not be using the same font transformation the rest of the world is.

I wonder if I can create layers inside a text box too, which also have graphics, like lines and circles...

Is it an object at all?

I suppose, a layer is an object, but my figures do not look much like objects, I mean I cannot create them as objects, give them names, make them into components, like an arrow, with a head and tail, then instantiate the object. Of course, you'd have to do this with a svg program, but I couldn't tell what gimp was just by looking at it. There sure are alot of windows.

How would I go about creating an mspaint user interface for the gimp?

Can I do it with your scheme interpreter?

Curious thing, AutoCad also has a Lisp interface, which none of my architect friends can use.

Who inspired who?

Joe http://modern-greek-verbs.tripod.com/ http://www.geocities.com/klairbab/

On 1/24/06, Joe Schaffner wrote:

Hi Everyone,

I have SuSE Linux 9.2 and need to do some simple line drawings I'm doing for a book I'm translating. The site is at:

http://www.geocities.com/klairbab/

I know Microsoft Paint pretty well, so you can imagine my surprise when I opened up gimp.

It looks like a paint program but it's not. I discovered I can draw ellipses and rectangles by "selecting" a path then "stroking" the path.

Pretty neat.

But I'm having a hell of a time selecting and moving objects around.

It looks like each Text object is being placed its own "layer".

What exactly is a layer? Do I select an object by selecting the layer? Do I move the whole layer?
Does it make sense to draw inside a text object? Is it an object at all?

All I need is a monocrome gif, but it would be nice if the resulting drawing were scalable, one which would grow and shrink if the user zooms in using the browser.

Does gimp do that?

I have friends who use AutoCad and are always talking about scalable, vector graphics. AutoCad also uses layers, but I've forgotten exactly what the were.

Can you help?

Thanks.

Joe http://modern-greek-verbs.tripod.com/

My First GIF: http://www.geocities.com/klairbab/alpha.gif

(It's part of http://www.geocities.com/klairbab/verbcomb.html but I can't pass you the #doorbell portion of the url, because Yahoo! is mangling the anchor)

Hey, Gimp really is great!

Thanks.

Joe

PS

Do I move the whole layer?

It looks like I can "select" the layer using the Layer dialog and move the entire layer to position the text. I'll try that tomorrow. That would be easier than cutting and pasting regions on the drawing surface, like you do with mspaint, but I got pretty good at it. What bothered me was moving the edges of the layer off screen. I don't like surprises.

that quality can become useful. there is a difference between canvas size and image size. if at any moment you are extremely uncomfortable with some of the image stuff not being in view in the image area, simply Image/Canvas to image size (or something like that in the menu).

Moving the Text boxes around was a breeze. I just made sure the "?????" layer was current (must be "Background" in English). Then I chose the Move tool and simply moved the cursor, slowly, over the text. A little hand appeared, which I clicked, and got the Move icon again. The scope was clear, and I could position the text inside the ellipses, no problem. I didn't even need to consider the layers.

the text tool has several options, one of them is a reset. please use the reset button and then be careful of which font you choose. the free software tends to show you all of your computer fonts. not all of those fonts were made for decorative image making.

Ok, I'll remember that, the reset button...

The font I'm using is the TTF Times New Roman I took off a Windows system. I chose 14 pt. but the .xcf came out a little small. Looks more like 8 pt. The gif actually compares well with the browser, just a little smaller than expected. The rasterization process must be the same (of course).

Hey! I couldn't find any grid.

View/Grid

Sorry about that. I found the Grid, no problem. I have a Greek desktop and I overlooked it.

I noticed one of the layers had a grid-like background, don't know how it got there, and I couldn't make it do anything with it, so I gave up.

it is also possible to paint a grid onto a layer. Filters/Render/Patterns/Grid, perhaps you did this.

What is that checkerboard pattern?

How would I go about creating an mspaint user interface for the gimp?

i would start by seeing if you can get it to compile on windows first. then ask again for instructions here.

No need to do that... Gimp just as easy as mspaint after all. If mspaint is a "paint program", then gimp is too, only better.

Can I do it with your scheme interpreter?

you would have to answer this yourself.

No, I don't think so... If your Scheme is anything like AutoLisp it can only be used in the application domain, to automate the drawing process, like a macro language. I don't expect I can put new buttons in the tool box. Hm, maybe I can..

I was thinking I'd probably need a programming language, like C, and your plug-in interface, to extend gimp, but I still don't know what you consider a plug-in, hm, transformers for other file formats?

i wonder even if mspaint is a
scheme thing using libgimp. there is no way of knowing what the heck ms did to make software!

Wouldn't that be funny, if MS ripped you off. You wouldn't be the first victim.

Curious thing, AutoCad also has a Lisp interface, which none of my architect friends can use.

Who inspired who?

meanwhile, ICQ claims all .scm (i read this somewhere on the internet)

Sorry, what is ICQ and .scm?

to me, personally, it speaks well of your friends to not be able to use lisp.

It also makes me more useful. :)

Thanks Carol,

Great email.

Great program.

On 1/26/06, Carol Spears wrote:

On Thu, Jan 26, 2006 at 09:39:26PM +0200, Joe Schaffner wrote:

What exactly is a layer?

A drawing is made up of layers. Why? Each layer has attributes which are combined to produce a total visual effect. This means you can add and subtract layers, join them, etc.

Some of these attributes must be the fuzzing, shadowing, smearing, etc.... the artsy stuff, which a newbie like me would not be interested in.

A layer can be transparent. Perfect. When I create a text box I must also be creating a layer.

making masks and manipulating the transparency of each layer is the only thing missing from this nice answer to your own question.

Do I move the whole layer?

It looks like I can "select" the layer using the Layer dialog and move the entire layer to position the text. I'll try that tomorrow. That would be easier than cutting and pasting regions on the drawing surface, like you do with mspaint, but I got pretty good at it. What bothered me was moving the edges of the layer off screen. I don't like surprises.

that quality can become useful. there is a difference between canvas size and image size. if at any moment you are extremely uncomfortable with some of the image stuff not being in view in the image area, simply Image/Canvas to image size (or something like that in the menu).

Hey! I couldn't find any grid.

View/Grid

you can adjust the size of the grid via the preferences.

I'm used to drawing on a gridded surface. I need the grid to line up components and I can't do that using the rulers on the edges of the drawing surface, and the measuring tools have a learning curve... These learning curves are cumulative.

I noticed one of the layers had a grid like background, don't know how it got there, and I couldn't make it do anything with it, so I gave up.

it is also possible to paint a grid onto a layer. Filters/Render/Patterns/Grid, perhaps you did this.

also, if you drag the mouse from the rulers you can get a guide.

Do I select an object by selecting the layer?

To be honest, I was expecting to be able to point at an "object" and select it by simply clicking, but it was much more complicated than that, and I wasn't sure exactly what a selection tool was or a path.

the gimp has an understanding of too many "objects". perhaps you want all instance of a color, maybe you would like all continuous instance of a color. perhaps you want all the image area outside of a path that you have not shown to gimp yet. it is more complex than what you are used to.

There was something called a "moving selection" layer or something. I don't know how I got it, but it had something to do with the selection tools, or the "move" button, which also was highly context-sensitive, so I couldn't do much with that either.

floating selections. much controversy. if you use gimp often, you will understand how it works.

Does it make sense to draw inside a text object?

I can edit the letters in the text box. Boy was the font quality crappy, much worse than the browser. You must not be using the same font transformation the rest of the world is.

the text tool has several options, one of them is a reset. please use the reset button and then be careful of which font you choose. the free software tends to show you all of your computer fonts. not all of those fonts were made for decorative image making.

please do not be frightened about this new glimpse into your computer. those system fonts actually (occasionally) make nice button images because they do work at lower resolutions.

I wonder if I can create layers inside a text box too, which also have graphics, like lines and circles...

no. the text layer is a special layer. if you save your work as xcf, gimp should be able to access the text and the font if it is still available to it where you open it.

you can do all of those things on layers around it. tranforming the text layer in any way beyond moving it will make it be a paint layer with no text memory other than the shape.

Is it an object at all?

I suppose, a layer is an object, but my figures do not look much like objects, I mean I cannot create them as objects, give them names, make them into components, like an arrow, with a head and tail, then instantiate the object. Of course, you'd have to do this with a svg program, but I couldn't tell what gimp was just by looking at it. There sure are alot of windows.

How would I go about creating an mspaint user interface for the gimp?

i would start by seeing if you can get it to compile on windows first. then ask again for instructions here.

Can I do it with your scheme interpreter?

you would have to answer this yourself. i wonder even if mspaint is a scheme thing using libgimp. there is no way of knowing what the heck ms did to make software!

Curious thing, AutoCad also has a Lisp interface, which none of my architect friends can use.

Who inspired who?

meanwhile, ICQ claims all .scm (i read this somewhere on the internet)

to me, personally, it speaks well of your friends to not be able to use lisp.

carol

http://modern-greek-verbs.tripod.com/ http://www.geocities.com/klairbab/

On 1/24/06, Joe Schaffner wrote:

Hi Everyone,

I have SuSE Linux 9.2 and need to do some simple line drawings I'm doing for a book I'm translating. The site is at:

http://www.geocities.com/klairbab/

I know Microsoft Paint pretty well, so you can imagine my surprise when I opened up gimp.

It looks like a paint program but it's not. I discovered I can draw ellipses and rectangles by "selecting" a path then "stroking" the path.

Pretty neat.

But I'm having a hell of a time selecting and moving objects around.

It looks like each Text object is being placed its own "layer".

What exactly is a layer? Do I select an object by selecting the layer? Do I move the whole layer?
Does it make sense to draw inside a text object? Is it an object at all?

All I need is a monocrome gif, but it would be nice if the resulting drawing were scalable, one which would grow and shrink if the user zooms in using the browser.

Does gimp do that?

I have friends who use AutoCad and are always talking about scalable, vector graphics. AutoCad also uses layers, but I've forgotten exactly what the were.

Can you help?

Thanks.

Joe http://modern-greek-verbs.tripod.com/

I discovered Open Office Draw today...

A dream come true. The program is layed out for drawing lines/arrows, squares and circles. No paths or layers to deal with. Perfect for me.

I did this drawing in about 30 minutes: http://www.geocities.com/klairbab/beta.gif

Everything came out the right size. The font size really is 14 pt (and too big for this document).

I can select the objects by pointing at them, move them around, resize them. They retain their identity.

I can even select a group of objects using the [rectanglular] select tool, and copy and paste the group into a new location. Draw does a deep copy. You get new objects which look exactly like the old ones, clones.

Funny thing was I couldn't find the crop button, so I used Gimp to resize it.

The crop button was described in the help, but I couldn't find the 'graphics object' toolbar. Have no idea where it could be. (I managed to find this toolbar in the 'Customize' dialog box. I could configure it, the but I couldn't find it!)

Draw even claims to do scalable vector graphics, but I didn't get that deep into it. I'm afraid to look, afraid of being disappointed.

The native file format is xml, I forget the extension, like OO Office, .swx, or something like that.

Wouldn't it be nice if Draw used the 3wc svg schema?

Even if it did you'd have to deal with rendering the drawing. That would mean a plug-in for the browser, which only seem to display gifs and jpegs with any consistency.

Joe http://modern-greek-verbs.tripod.com/

PS

I revisited Microsoft Paint today. It hasn't changed since I first met it in Windows 98. It has a very simple user interface. I could still make it work.

The text box merely puts the bitmapped image of the text on the drawing surface. When you leave the little editor, Paint forgets it was a text object, but it's pretty simple to copy and paste the thing.

Paint even has buttons for boxes with rounded corners. I remember doing documentation for a keyboard layout using them, a hundred of them.

All this is speculative of course, but I wonder how I would do it in Gimp. Gimp has alot of flexibility, so much, in fact, I didn't know where to begin. That was the problem. To make things worse, I'm sure I'll forget the Gimp abstractions in a couple weeks. That's what made Paint so useful. Nothing to remember.

I see there are alot of drawing programs out there. The commercial ones, I don't know them, so I don't know what Adobe is offering, probably something pretty nice, a Cadillac, with scalable vector graphics.

A friend teaches AutoCad so I got used to watching her make floor plans.

Another friend is an interior decorator and uses AutoCad.

They told me the selling price is $5,000 US, and the program only runs on a Windows platform. They have managed to get copies for free.

This means I'd get a chance to test the Windows emulator for Linux, what was it called? Something catchy, like "Pine" or something.

"Wine" that's it. "Windows Emulator" ... another program that sounds to good to be true.

But I'll probably never get a chancem because Helen and Katerina have no idea what Linux is. They strictly do Windows.

Working these programs is purely instinctive. When you learn how to do it you can do it in a flash. No need to explain how it works to use it, it's like driving a car. I envy you graphics designers. You are in touch with your inner selves, very creative, men and women of few words. All this comes naturally to you.

Me?

I like numbers. I can't make it work if I don't understand it -- and I don't drive a car.

On 1/31/06, Joe Schaffner wrote:

My First GIF: http://www.geocities.com/klairbab/alpha.gif

(It's part of http://www.geocities.com/klairbab/verbcomb.html but I can't pass you the #doorbell portion of the url, because Yahoo! is mangling the anchor)

Hey, Gimp really is great!

Thanks.

Joe

PS

Do I move the whole layer?

It looks like I can "select" the layer using the Layer dialog and move the entire layer to position the text. I'll try that tomorrow. That would be easier than cutting and pasting regions on the drawing surface, like you do with mspaint, but I got pretty good at it. What bothered me was moving the edges of the layer off screen. I don't like surprises.

that quality can become useful. there is a difference between canvas size and image size. if at any moment you are extremely uncomfortable with some of the image stuff not being in view in the image area, simply Image/Canvas to image size (or something like that in the menu).

Moving the Text boxes around was a breeze. I just made sure the "?????" layer was current (must be "Background" in English). Then I chose the Move tool and simply moved the cursor, slowly, over the text. A little hand appeared, which I clicked, and got the Move icon again. The scope was clear, and I could position the text inside the ellipses, no problem. I didn't even need to consider the layers.

the text tool has several options, one of them is a reset. please use the reset button and then be careful of which font you choose. the free software tends to show you all of your computer fonts. not all of those fonts were made for decorative image making.

Ok, I'll remember that, the reset button...

The font I'm using is the TTF Times New Roman I took off a Windows system. I chose 14 pt. but the .xcf came out a little small. Looks more like 8 pt. The gif actually compares well with the browser, just a little smaller than expected. The rasterization process must be the same (of course).

Hey! I couldn't find any grid.

View/Grid

Sorry about that. I found the Grid, no problem. I have a Greek desktop and I overlooked it.

I noticed one of the layers had a grid-like background, don't know how it got there, and I couldn't make it do anything with it, so I gave up.

it is also possible to paint a grid onto a layer. Filters/Render/Patterns/Grid, perhaps you did this.

What is that checkerboard pattern?

How would I go about creating an mspaint user interface for the gimp?

i would start by seeing if you can get it to compile on windows first. then ask again for instructions here.

No need to do that... Gimp just as easy as mspaint after all. If mspaint is a "paint program", then gimp is too, only better.

Can I do it with your scheme interpreter?

you would have to answer this yourself.

No, I don't think so... If your Scheme is anything like AutoLisp it can only be used in the application domain, to automate the drawing process, like a macro language. I don't expect I can put new buttons in the tool box. Hm, maybe I can..

I was thinking I'd probably need a programming language, like C, and your plug-in interface, to extend gimp, but I still don't know what you consider a plug-in, hm, transformers for other file formats?

i wonder even if mspaint is a
scheme thing using libgimp. there is no way of knowing what the heck ms did to make software!

Wouldn't that be funny, if MS ripped you off. You wouldn't be the first victim.

Curious thing, AutoCad also has a Lisp interface, which none of my architect friends can use.

Who inspired who?

meanwhile, ICQ claims all .scm (i read this somewhere on the internet)

Sorry, what is ICQ and .scm?

to me, personally, it speaks well of your friends to not be able to use lisp.

It also makes me more useful. :)

Thanks Carol,

Great email.

Great program.

On 1/26/06, Carol Spears wrote:

On Thu, Jan 26, 2006 at 09:39:26PM +0200, Joe Schaffner wrote:

What exactly is a layer?

A drawing is made up of layers. Why? Each layer has attributes which are combined to produce a total visual effect. This means you can add and subtract layers, join them, etc.

Some of these attributes must be the fuzzing, shadowing, smearing, etc.... the artsy stuff, which a newbie like me would not be interested in.

A layer can be transparent. Perfect. When I create a text box I must also be creating a layer.

making masks and manipulating the transparency of each layer is the only thing missing from this nice answer to your own question.

Do I move the whole layer?

It looks like I can "select" the layer using the Layer dialog and move the entire layer to position the text. I'll try that tomorrow. That would be easier than cutting and pasting regions on the drawing surface, like you do with mspaint, but I got pretty good at it. What bothered me was moving the edges of the layer off screen. I don't like surprises.

that quality can become useful. there is a difference between canvas size and image size. if at any moment you are extremely uncomfortable with some of the image stuff not being in view in the image area, simply Image/Canvas to image size (or something like that in the menu).

Hey! I couldn't find any grid.

View/Grid

you can adjust the size of the grid via the preferences.

I'm used to drawing on a gridded surface. I need the grid to line up components and I can't do that using the rulers on the edges of the drawing surface, and the measuring tools have a learning curve... These learning curves are cumulative.

I noticed one of the layers had a grid like background, don't know how it got there, and I couldn't make it do anything with it, so I gave up.

it is also possible to paint a grid onto a layer. Filters/Render/Patterns/Grid, perhaps you did this.

also, if you drag the mouse from the rulers you can get a guide.

Do I select an object by selecting the layer?

To be honest, I was expecting to be able to point at an "object" and select it by simply clicking, but it was much more complicated than that, and I wasn't sure exactly what a selection tool was or a path.

the gimp has an understanding of too many "objects". perhaps you want all instance of a color, maybe you would like all continuous instance of a color. perhaps you want all the image area outside of a path that you have not shown to gimp yet. it is more complex than what you are used to.

There was something called a "moving selection" layer or something. I don't know how I got it, but it had something to do with the selection tools, or the "move" button, which also was highly context-sensitive, so I couldn't do much with that either.

floating selections. much controversy. if you use gimp often, you will understand how it works.

Does it make sense to draw inside a text object?

I can edit the letters in the text box. Boy was the font quality crappy, much worse than the browser. You must not be using the same font transformation the rest of the world is.

the text tool has several options, one of them is a reset. please use the reset button and then be careful of which font you choose. the free software tends to show you all of your computer fonts. not all of those fonts were made for decorative image making.

please do not be frightened about this new glimpse into your computer. those system fonts actually (occasionally) make nice button images because they do work at lower resolutions.

I wonder if I can create layers inside a text box too, which also have graphics, like lines and circles...

no. the text layer is a special layer. if you save your work as xcf, gimp should be able to access the text and the font if it is still available to it where you open it.

you can do all of those things on layers around it. tranforming the text layer in any way beyond moving it will make it be a paint layer with no text memory other than the shape.

Is it an object at all?

I suppose, a layer is an object, but my figures do not look much like objects, I mean I cannot create them as objects, give them names, make them into components, like an arrow, with a head and tail, then instantiate the object. Of course, you'd have to do this with a svg program, but I couldn't tell what gimp was just by looking at it. There sure are alot of windows.

How would I go about creating an mspaint user interface for the gimp?

i would start by seeing if you can get it to compile on windows first. then ask again for instructions here.

Can I do it with your scheme interpreter?

you would have to answer this yourself. i wonder even if mspaint is a scheme thing using libgimp. there is no way of knowing what the heck ms did to make software!

Curious thing, AutoCad also has a Lisp interface, which none of my architect friends can use.

Who inspired who?

meanwhile, ICQ claims all .scm (i read this somewhere on the internet)

to me, personally, it speaks well of your friends to not be able to use lisp.

carol

http://modern-greek-verbs.tripod.com/ http://www.geocities.com/klairbab/

On 1/24/06, Joe Schaffner wrote:

Hi Everyone,

I have SuSE Linux 9.2 and need to do some simple line drawings I'm doing for a book I'm translating. The site is at:

http://www.geocities.com/klairbab/

I know Microsoft Paint pretty well, so you can imagine my surprise when I opened up gimp.

It looks like a paint program but it's not. I discovered I can draw ellipses and rectangles by "selecting" a path then "stroking" the path.

Pretty neat.

But I'm having a hell of a time selecting and moving objects around.

It looks like each Text object is being placed its own "layer".

What exactly is a layer? Do I select an object by selecting the layer? Do I move the whole layer?
Does it make sense to draw inside a text object? Is it an object at all?

All I need is a monocrome gif, but it would be nice if the resulting drawing were scalable, one which would grow and shrink if the user zooms in using the browser.

Does gimp do that?

I have friends who use AutoCad and are always talking about scalable, vector graphics. AutoCad also uses layers, but I've forgotten exactly what the were.

Can you help?

Thanks.

Joe http://modern-greek-verbs.tripod.com/

Fun with email.

Hi Carol,

nice to hear from you again.

Just curious, are you a Gimp user, a graphical designer, a programmer, do you work for gimp.org, or all of the above?

Joe

PS

How would I go about creating an mspaint user interface for the gimp?

i would start by seeing if you can get it to compile on windows first. then ask again for instructions here.

No need to do that... Gimp just as easy as mspaint after all. If mspaint is a "paint program", then gimp is too, only better.

Can I do it with your scheme interpreter?

you would have to answer this yourself.

No, I don't think so... If your Scheme is anything like AutoLisp it can only be used in the application domain, to automate the drawing process, like a macro language. I don't expect I can put new buttons in the tool box. Hm, maybe I can..

it is not my scheme! no way.

personally, i don't think scheme should be here. windows95 and windowsNT are basically scheme engines, aren't they?

The Scheme I'm talking about was/is a dialect of Common Lisp, so I don't know what you mean by "scheme engine".

I read the Gimp documentation online very quickly, and I associated your Script-Fu dialog with a Lisp interpreter. I must have seen some example.

Since both Gimp and AutoCad have a lisp interface, and since they are both graphics programs, I thought maybe the same people worked on the. They seem to share the same interests. Me, I like Lisp, but non programmers are usually intimidated by all the parenthesses ((((((())))))) is a valid lisp expression.

I was thinking I'd probably need a programming language, like C, and your plug-in interface, to extend gimp, but I still don't know what you consider a plug-in, hm, transformers for other file formats?

are you looking at information online or at the source code while you think about all of this?

Just the documentation.

Thanks Carol,

you are welcome. it would actually be helpful if you explained what steps you took to make that image. it could/should have been better.

I couldn't even begin to remember what I did, because I made alot of mistakes. A couple times Gimp seemed to get confused and the move operations didn't move but copy the figures, so I would quit and reopen the drawing.

Actually, I'm quite happy with the quality, just a bit surprised the font came out so small, probably because I was overlooking some properties. I would pay more attention next time.

On 2/1/06, Carol Spears wrote:

On Tue, Jan 31, 2006 at 09:27:13PM +0200, Joe Schaffner wrote:

My First GIF: http://www.geocities.com/klairbab/alpha.gif

i think you will find that the lines of the elipse are smoother if you flatten the image first and then save. i am curious, when you made the image, did you see an "Export Dialog"? if export is indexing first and then flattening, it should be changed....

It looks like I can "select" the layer using the Layer dialog and move the entire layer to position the text. I'll try that tomorrow. That would be easier than cutting and pasting regions on the drawing surface, like you do with mspaint, but I got pretty good at it. What bothered me was moving the edges of the layer off screen. I don't like surprises.

that quality can become useful. there is a difference between canvas size and image size. if at any moment you are extremely uncomfortable with some of the image stuff not being in view in the image area, simply Image/Canvas to image size (or something like that in the menu).

Moving the Text boxes around was a breeze. I just made sure the "?????" layer was current (must be "Background" in English). Then I chose the Move tool and simply moved the cursor, slowly, over the text. A little hand appeared, which I clicked, and got the Move icon again. The scope was clear, and I could position the text inside the ellipses, no problem. I didn't even need to consider the layers.

if you work with it more, the relationship between the move tool and the layers will become more familar.

the text tool has several options, one of them is a reset. please use the reset button and then be careful of which font you choose. the free software tends to show you all of your computer fonts. not all of those fonts were made for decorative image making.

Ok, I'll remember that, the reset button...

The font I'm using is the TTF Times New Roman I took off a Windows system. I chose 14 pt. but the .xcf came out a little small. Looks more like 8 pt. The gif actually compares well with the browser, just a little smaller than expected. The rasterization process must be the same (of course).

my advice about the reset button was a way for me to avoid discussing anti-aliasing and auto-hinting and fixing your tool options via email. all of these things matter when rendering text with gimp.

also, my advice was about how to fix not smooth text (this part of the original mail has been edited out). if your image is being indexed before it is flattened, as i mentioned earlier, it would cause the problems that you had described in your original mail.

Hey! I couldn't find any grid.

View/Grid

Sorry about that. I found the Grid, no problem. I have a Greek desktop and I overlooked it.

the original question for this was that you had a grid but it did not seem to do anything. there is a difference in grids in GIMP. one kind is painted on and the other kind is part of GIMPs memory about the image area.

I noticed one of the layers had a grid-like background, don't know how it got there, and I couldn't make it do anything with it, so I gave up.

it is also possible to paint a grid onto a layer. Filters/Render/Patterns/Grid, perhaps you did this.

What is that checkerboard pattern?

paint trick. adrian likins wrote it, i think.

How would I go about creating an mspaint user interface for the gimp?

i would start by seeing if you can get it to compile on windows first. then ask again for instructions here.

No need to do that... Gimp just as easy as mspaint after all. If mspaint is a "paint program", then gimp is too, only better.

Can I do it with your scheme interpreter?

you would have to answer this yourself.

No, I don't think so... If your Scheme is anything like AutoLisp it can only be used in the application domain, to automate the drawing process, like a macro language. I don't expect I can put new buttons in the tool box. Hm, maybe I can..

it is not my scheme! no way.

personally, i don't think scheme should be here. windows95 and windowsNT are basically scheme engines, aren't they?

I was thinking I'd probably need a programming language, like C, and your plug-in interface, to extend gimp, but I still don't know what you consider a plug-in, hm, transformers for other file formats?

are you looking at information online or at the source code while you think about all of this?

i wonder even if mspaint is a
scheme thing using libgimp. there is no way of knowing what the heck ms did to make software!

Wouldn't that be funny, if MS ripped you off. You wouldn't be the first victim.

there is a lot of power in not wanting to take the blame for something. i don't think that any of the gimp developers past or present want to take the blame for MS software. so, no -- it wouldn't be funny.

Curious thing, AutoCad also has a Lisp interface, which none of my architect friends can use.

Who inspired who?

meanwhile, ICQ claims all .scm (i read this somewhere on the internet)

Sorry, what is ICQ and .scm?

.scm is the extension of the gimps script-fu files. and i just read that ICQ installs itself to read all .scm, i did not read what ICQ was.

to me, personally, it speaks well of your friends to not be able to use lisp.

It also makes me more useful. :)

Thanks Carol,

you are welcome. it would actually be helpful if you explained what steps you took to make that image. it could/should have been better.