On 11/30/05, Bruce Arkwright Jr. wrote:

Is there anyone using Gimp on a Mac? All versions will not work, I get the starting Dialog box showing It is
loading but by the time it is loading font data it crashes. I need my GIMP. AHGGG.

I'm running gimp 2.2.6 with 10.4.3 and it seems fine... I'm using the " Gimp.app" verison.

I do find it is noticably slower than on linux at the same clock speeds (at least 2x slower, maybe more), but it works fine for me...

Warren

Am 30.11.2005 um 20:46 schrieb Warren Baird:

On 11/30/05, Bruce Arkwright Jr. wrote: Is there anyone using Gimp on a Mac? All versions will not work, I get the starting Dialog box showing It is loading but by the time it is loading font data it crashes. I need my GIMP. AHGGG.

I'm running gimp 2.2.6 with 10.4.3 and it seems fine... I'm using the "Gimp.app" verison.

I do find it is noticably slower than on linux at the same clock speeds (at least 2x slower, maybe more), but it works fine for me...

Warren

Hi,

GIMP 2.2.8 works for me too. Where did you get your gimp from? @Warren: the slowdown in the gui is probably caused by Apples X11. That might be change in future with the hopefully upcoming native gtk + for OS X.

lexA

On 11/30/05, Axel Wernicke wrote:

@Warren: the slowdown in the gui is probably caused by Apples X11. That might be change in future with the hopefully upcoming native gtk+ for OS X.

It's not a GUI slowdown that I'm talking about --- it's ops like doing an unsharp mask..

I did some comparisons a while back between linux on an athlon 1800+ (1.5ghz), and macosx on an 800mhz g4, and for an 8 megapixel image, linux was
taking 18s to do the unsharp mask, and the mac was taking 75s --- much slower than the relative clock speeds. For comparison, Photoshop takes about 5s to do the unsharp mask on the mac.

It does make it pretty painful to use. I was actually contemplating buying photoshop - but I've been using the gimp for so long I don't want to switch

I was going to fire up a profiler and see what's happening - but the last time I tried I couldn't get the gimp to compile through fink...

I assume that the code isn't using X to do the actual bitmap manipulations, so I doubt the native gtk+ implemenation will help me here. It'll still be nice though... :-)

Warren

Am 30.11.2005 um 22:42 schrieb Warren Baird:

On 11/30/05, Axel Wernicke wrote:

@Warren: the slowdown in the gui is probably caused by Apples X11. That might be change in future with the hopefully upcoming native gtk+ for OS X.

It's not a GUI slowdown that I'm talking about --- it's ops like doing an unsharp mask..

ok, thats different of course.

I did some comparisons a while back between linux on an athlon 1800 + (1.5 ghz), and macosx on an 800mhz g4, and for an 8 megapixel image, linux was taking 18s to do the unsharp mask, and the mac was taking 75s --- much slower than the relative clock speeds. For comparison, Photoshop takes about 5s to do the unsharp mask on the mac.

wow. I'm using a G4@800 myself (I like the iBook :), but didn't know that other platforms are performing that much better...

It does make it pretty painful to use. I was actually contemplating buying photoshop - but I've been using the gimp for so long I don't want to switch

[x]

I was going to fire up a profiler and see what's happening - but the last time I tried I couldn't get the gimp to compile through fink...

may be I can help here, I'm running the most recent beta (2.3.5) from fink (kind of) I have a fink.info file that only needs to be stored in the right place and then a fink install gimp23 will do :). Just write me an email if you are interested. The file is not in the official fink distribution tough.

I assume that the code isn't using X to do the actual bitmap manipulations, so I doubt the native gtk+ implemenation will help me here. It'll still be nice though... :-)

well, may be we can tackle that other performance issues too - I'd be _very_ interested in that by myself.

lexA

Warren

On Wednesday 30 November 2005 16:42, Warren Baird wrote:

On 11/30/05, Axel Wernicke wrote:

@Warren: the slowdown in the gui is probably caused by Apples X11. That might be change in future with the hopefully upcoming native gtk+ for OS X.

It's not a GUI slowdown that I'm talking about --- it's ops like doing an unsharp mask..

I did some comparisons a while back between linux on an athlon 1800+ (1.5ghz), and macosx on an 800mhz g4, and for an 8 megapixel image, linux was
taking 18s to do the unsharp mask, and the mac was taking 75s --- much slower than the relative clock speeds. For comparison, Photoshop takes about 5s to do the unsharp mask on the mac.

It does make it pretty painful to use. I was actually contemplating buying photoshop - but I've been using the gimp for so long I don't want to switch

I was going to fire up a profiler and see what's happening - but the last time I tried I couldn't get the gimp to compile through fink...

I assume that the code isn't using X to do the actual bitmap manipulations, so I doubt the native gtk+ implemenation will help me here. It'll still be nice though... :-)

Warren

=======

Warren,
Ever thought about installing a native Linux install with your Mac? I'm guessing you will see quite a difference running Gimp in Linux on that PPC! There are several available now and SuSE has started it's new 10 on PPC as well. If you have the hard drive space, I think it would be worth your time.

regards,
Lee

what is going on. Almost like a virus is involved, but nothing else is affected. I am not a computer wiz, but can not find the problem.
I like OS 10.4 but want to defiantly want Linux and was thinking Suze or Debian (or version of). I could not/did

So honestly, do you think switching to linux is a good thing to do for you?

regards, lexA
---
Live is like a chocolate box, you never know what you wanna get... GPG Signatur auf http://wernicke-online.net/Impressum/ prüfen

On 11/30/05, BandiPat wrote:

Warren,
Ever thought about installing a native Linux install with your Mac? I'm guessing you will see quite a difference running Gimp in Linux on that PPC! There are several available now and SuSE has started it's new 10 on PPC as well. If you have the hard drive space, I think it would be worth your time.

Hmm... out of curiousity - why do you think I'll see a big difference? You think the perf problems I'm seeing are related to MacOSX, and not things that are poorly optimized for PPC? I'd assumed it was that some of the tight loop math stuff was behaving better on x86 than on PPC.

I guess it would be an interesting experiment --- Unfortunately I don't have much extra disk space on my ibook, so I'm not sure it's feasible...

Linux isn't a solution for my problem anyways - even if they had support for the airport extreme card, I'm not sure I'd want to switch --- I've gotten very fond of iPhoto...

Warren

BandiPat wrote:

Warren,
Ever thought about installing a native Linux install with your Mac? I'm guessing you will see quite a difference running Gimp in Linux on that PPC! There are several available now and SuSE has started it's new 10 on PPC as well. If you have the hard drive space, I think it would be worth your time.

Hmm. I was dubious - but the results were more interesting than I thought they'd be. I tried using the Ubuntu 5.04 PPC live cd, which has gimp v2.2.2 on it. I also retested on mac os x, since I've upgraded to a 1.2 ghz ibook since I last tested things.

Here's the full summary: All tests were done on the same 8megapixel image (taken with a canon digital rebel xt - the file is slightly under 2mb)

ibook 800mhz g4 mac os x: unsharp mask: 75s, gausian blur: 65s ibook 1.2ghz g4 mac os x: unsharp mask: 44s, gausian blur: 55s ibook 1.2ghz g4 linux: unsharp mask: 22s, gausian blur: 29s athlon 1800+ linux: unsharp mask: 17s, gausian blue: 18s

for comparison, photoshop on a 800mhz g4 took about 5s for both unsharp mask and gausian blur.

It's not clear to me why the linux version is so much faster on the same hardware - There must be something interesting going on...

I'm going to try to get a build of the gimp from source on my machine this weekend to see if I can get some profiling info...

Warren

On Friday 02 December 2005 22:17, Warren Baird wrote:

BandiPat wrote:

Warren,
Ever thought about installing a native Linux install with your Mac? I'm guessing you will see quite a difference running Gimp in Linux on that PPC! There are several available now and SuSE has started it's new 10 on PPC as well. If you have the hard drive space, I think it would be worth your time.

Hmm. I was dubious - but the results were more interesting than I thought they'd be. I tried using the Ubuntu 5.04 PPC live cd, which has gimp v2.2.2 on it. I also retested on mac os x, since I've upgraded to a 1.2 ghz ibook since I last tested things.

Here's the full summary: All tests were done on the same 8megapixel image (taken with a canon digital rebel xt - the file is slightly under 2mb)

ibook 800mhz g4 mac os x: unsharp mask: 75s, gausian blur: 65s ibook 1.2ghz g4 mac os x: unsharp mask: 44s, gausian blur: 55s ibook 1.2ghz g4 linux: unsharp mask: 22s, gausian blur: 29s athlon 1800+ linux: unsharp mask: 17s, gausian blue: 18s

for comparison, photoshop on a 800mhz g4 took about 5s for both unsharp mask and gausian blur.

It's not clear to me why the linux version is so much faster on the same hardware - There must be something interesting going on...

I'm going to try to get a build of the gimp from source on my machine this weekend to see if I can get some profiling info...

Warren

========

It's simple, Apple strangles the Unix that is on the machine. If you had a straight install of Unix without anything Apple over or under it, you would see a dramatic increase in speed also.

I read an article a few months ago about the problems associated with OS X on their machines. I wish I could remember where it was, so I could point you to it. It's just Apple's way of taking something really good and making it less than perfect with their add ons. Every user I've talked to or article I've read remarks how much faster Linux is on the PPC than OS X. It's a great cpu, sadly Apple didn't want it to appear that way.

regards,
Lee

BandiPat wrote:

It's simple, Apple strangles the Unix that is on the machine. If you had a straight install of Unix without anything Apple over or under it, you would see a dramatic increase in speed also.

I read an article a few months ago about the problems associated with OS X on their machines. I wish I could remember where it was, so I could point you to it. It's just Apple's way of taking something really good and making it less than perfect with their add ons. Every user I've talked to or article I've read remarks how much faster Linux is on the PPC than OS X. It's a great cpu, sadly Apple didn't want it to appear that way.

Hmm. I did see an article a while back talking about perf issues with apache --- I think it had something to do with context switches taking longer than on linux... But that shouldn't affect the Gimp much...

And I'm not sure I buy the argument that Mac OS X is just slower -

On 12/3/05, Warren Baird wrote:

And I'm not sure I buy the argument that Mac OS X is just slower --- like I said, photoshop was about 15 times faster that the Gimp at doing an unsharp mask on an 800 mhz g4 on mac os x.

You can not compare the 5sec it takes photoshop to the other numbers, because photoshop starts doing the operation before you press the ok button, thus appearing faster...

On Sat, Dec 03, 2005 at 10:57:08AM -0500, Warren Baird wrote:

BandiPat wrote:

It's simple, Apple strangles the Unix that is on the machine. If you had a straight install of Unix without anything Apple over or under it, you would see a dramatic increase in speed also.

I read an article a few months ago about the problems associated with OS X on their machines. I wish I could remember where it was, so I could point you to it. It's just Apple's way of taking something really good and making it less than perfect with their add ons. Every user I've talked to or article I've read remarks how much faster Linux is on the PPC than OS X. It's a great cpu, sadly Apple didn't want it to appear that way.

Hmm. I did see an article a while back talking about perf issues with apache --- I think it had something to do with context switches taking longer than on linux... But that shouldn't affect the Gimp much...

Actually, it would effect GIMP, and is the most probable reason why GIMP on Linux is so much faster on the same hardware. Plug-ins run as separate processes, but as they run they talk to the main app quite a bit, to get/put data, as well as calling image manipulation functions. So there's a ton of context switching involved, which hurts you badly on OS X. I/O is also much much slower compared to Linux.

Note I haven't actually profiled anything on OS X, but the poor context switch performance is the first thing I thought of when I read your earlier mails.

And I'm not sure I buy the argument that Mac OS X is just slower -