Feature Request: Open toolbox on right click.
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Feature Request: Open toolbox on right click.
I posted this to the c.g.a.gimp group initially but was told that this might be a better place for it. I wanted to discuss it before submitting it as a feature requeset to bugzilla. That way other users of the GIMP can bring their ideas to it (like, whether or not they like it!) and I can make it a bit more focused where it's uncertain (see *highlighted* sentance):
- - - -
It once again occured to me after recently discovering the stroke/fill option that there are many commonly used operations associated with tools that are difficult for users to find. Drawing shapes is a good example of this. GIMP - it has to be said - is not the most intuitive application in the world.
In fact, to utilise tools, one must either open a menu or go to one of the dialogues docked in another window to get at the options one needs, which can be frustrating if it's obscured by the window you're working in. I'm often making 3 or 4 clicks to make a simple change.
So, why not associate a toolbox with each tool that can be opened by right clicking in the image window. Currently, right clicking simply opens the menubar, which can be accessed twice already from the image window: it seems like a waste of a mouse button to me. Much better to be able to perform common tasks, such as "path to selection" or "stroke path" instead.
*Precisely what should go in these toolboxes I'm not sure.*
You could also make it flexible and do what you do already with dialogues, providing a number of presets while allowing users the option to customise the toolkit themselves (a system that works excellently imo).
- - - -
Btw, this is (more or less) my first post to the mailing list. So I'd just like to say hello to all other gimpers out there and, of course, thank you to any developers watching.
David
Feature Request: Open toolbox on right click.
David Marrs wrote:
I posted this to the c.g.a.gimp group initially but was told that this might be a better place for it. I wanted to discuss it before submitting it as a feature requeset to bugzilla. That way other users of the GIMP can bring their ideas to it (like, whether or not they like it!) and I can make it a bit more focused where it's uncertain (see *highlighted* sentance):
- - - -
Precision: I am not a gimp developer, just a user.
It once again occured to me after recently discovering the stroke/fill option that there are many commonly used operations associated with tools that are difficult for users to find. Drawing shapes is a good example of this. GIMP - it has to be said - is not the most intuitive application in the world.
In fact, to utilise tools, one must either open a menu or go to one of the dialogues docked in another window to get at the options one needs, which can be frustrating if it's obscured by the window you're working in. I'm often making 3 or 4 clicks to make a simple change.
You can specify inthe preferences that the toolbox must be "on top". This way, you always have it available...
So, why not associate a toolbox with each tool that can be opened by right clicking in the image window. Currently, right clicking simply opens the menubar, which can be accessed twice already from the image window: it seems like a waste of a mouse button to me. Much better to be able to perform common tasks, such as "path to selection" or "stroke path" instead.
Not everyone is using the menubar (it is optional, see the prefences): I do not. I find it unpractical since I very often use Gimp to work on small images. I think long time gimp users might also use preferentially the right-click menu to the menubar: It allows a faster/more straightforward access to the functionality. To summarise my personal opinion: The right click menu is one of the best things introduced by Gimp.
Compared to the way I use Gimp (toolbox never obstructed by image windows), I found that your way to access the tool options is demanding more click (1 click) that the present way (0 click).
*Precisely what should go in these toolboxes I'm not sure.*
You could also make it flexible and do what you do already with dialogues, providing a number of presets while allowing users the option to customise the toolkit themselves (a system that works excellently imo).
- - - -
Btw, this is (more or less) my first post to the mailing list. So I'd just like to say hello to all other gimpers out there and, of course, thank you to any developers watching.
David
Sincerely,
Olivier.
Feature Request: Open toolbox on right click.
Olivier Ripoll wrote:
You can specify inthe preferences that the toolbox must be "on top". This way, you always have it available...
Try as I might, I cannot find this option!
Not everyone is using the menubar (it is optional, see the prefences): I do not. I find it unpractical since I very often use Gimp to work on small images. I think long time gimp users might also use preferentially the right-click menu to the menubar: It allows a faster/more straightforward access to the functionality. To summarise my personal opinion: The right click menu is one of the best things introduced by Gimp.
But even with the menubar switched off it can still be accessed by clicking the right-facing arrow in the top left corner of the screen, so you don't *need* the right-click. I'm not saying that it shouldn't continue to be accessible by right-clicking. It could always be a preference option, or a Shift+click option.
Compared to the way I use Gimp (toolbox never obstructed by image windows), I found that your way to access the tool options is demanding more click (1 click) that the present way (0 click).
I'm not talking about reproducing the toolkit in the main gimp window, I'm talking about a separate toolbox that includes basic options (preferably not found in the toolkit) in order to make the GIMP faster and (crucially) more intuitive. Stroke selection is an obvious example here. Currently the only way I know to do this is from the Edit menu. Having this available on right click would be nice.
As a general rule of thumb, users expect to be able to extend the use of a tool/app/whatever on right-click anyway. This is simply a continuation of that process. I don't really see why it should cause problems for more experienced users who would easily be able to turn the option off if they didn't like it, but I think it might help newbies and less experienced users. I also think it's a more logical use of the right mouse-button.
Feature Request: Open toolbox on right click.
On Wed, 13 Apr 2005, David Marrs wrote:
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 16:09:28 +0100 From: David Marrs
To: gimp-user@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu Subject: [Gimp-user] Feature Request: Open toolbox on right click.I posted this to the c.g.a.gimp group initially but was told that this
the wha'? not familiar with the term c.g.a.gimp
might be a better place for it. I wanted to discuss it before submitting it as a feature requeset to bugzilla. That way other users of the GIMP can bring their ideas to it (like, whether or not they like it!) and I can make it a bit more focused where it's uncertain (see *highlighted* sentance):
- - - -
It once again occured to me after recently discovering the stroke/fill option that there are many commonly used operations associated with tools that are difficult for users to find. Drawing shapes is a good example of this. GIMP - it has to be said - is not the most intuitive application in the world.
Rather than creating complex selectoins and then stroking them, Gfig can be used to create some intersting results too.
request for a shape tool http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=65197
In fact, to utilise tools, one must either open a menu or go to one of the dialogues docked in another window to get at the options one needs, which can be frustrating if it's obscured by the window you're working in. I'm often making 3 or 4 clicks to make a simple change.
So, why not associate a toolbox with each tool that can be opened by right clicking in the image window. Currently, right clicking simply
If anything the GNU Image Manipulation Program should be moving away from requiring right click for anything as it makes work more cumbersome for anyone using a pen interface or accessibility tools.
opens the menubar, which can be accessed twice already from the image window:
If look back into the history of the gimp and see the stuggle it was to get the menubar added at all you will realise that there are many users who do actually like having to make that extra click anytime they want to do anything and you would have to pry the right click menu out of their cold dead hands.
it seems like a waste of a mouse button to me. Much better to be able to perform common tasks, such as "path to selection" or "stroke path" instead.
Most other applications use the right click menu as _context menu_ providing a short list of the most used or most relevant functions for a particular situation. I am afraid this is not a change the developers would be able to make without pissing off a lot of existing users and more importantly I do not think it is even a change they would particularly want to make.
You could also make it flexible and do what you do already with dialogues, providing a number of presets while allowing users the option to customise the toolkit themselves (a system that works excellently imo).
I think there is some sort of plan to make it easier to have presets for the various Filters, not sure though, might just be wishful thinking on my part.
Btw, this is (more or less) my first post to the mailing list. So I'd just like to say hello to all other gimpers out there and, of course, thank you to any developers watching.
The developers do read this too.
Later
Alan Horkan
Inkscape http://inkscape.org Open Clip Art http://OpenClipArt.org
Feature Request: Open toolbox on right click.
On Wed, 13 Apr 2005, David Marrs wrote:
It once again occured to me after recently discovering the stroke/fill option that there are many commonly used operations associated with tools that are difficult for users to find. Drawing shapes is a good example of this. GIMP - it has to be said - is not the most intuitive application in the world.
It may not be the most intuitive application in the world (something very very hard for a professional graphics program), but I think it is easily intuitable and that is the most importand property of a program for me. Other than that, I agree there are many ways the interface could be improved and we should try to improve it.
So, why not associate a toolbox with each tool that can be opened by right clicking in the image window. Currently, right clicking simply opens the menubar, which can be accessed twice already from the image window: it seems like a waste of a mouse button to me. Much better to be able to perform common tasks, such as "path to selection" or "stroke path" instead.
*Precisely what should go in these toolboxes I'm not sure.*
Having something like that in the right click I wouldn't think is very
practical. A previous reply to your post made that very clear. Although,
as I understand it, you propose that some actions, relevant to the current
tool, should be put somewhere where people can find them quickly. You have
my vote on that.
I propose a small horizontal toolbar (same size with the menubar) which
has some actions depending on the currently selected tool. For example,
when you use any of the selection tools, that bar could have the following
actions: stroke selection, save to channell, shrink and grow. For the
paint tools, that bar could have the brush selection widget. That way, the
user will have shortcuts to the actions he frequently needs and he will
find out the most frequent actions for each tool very quickly. So, gimp
will be both more usable and more intuitive.
Maybe that bar could even auto hide...
You could also make it flexible and do what you do already with dialogues, providing a number of presets while allowing users the option to customise the toolkit themselves (a system that works excellently imo).
Perhaps this could be done, but we should first try really hard and provide default shortcuts that will please most of the people.
PS. the more I think about this the more I miss it in gimp...
Feature Request: Open toolbox on right click.
On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 19:29:37 +0100 David Marrs wrote:
As a general rule of thumb, users expect to be able to extend the use of a tool/app/whatever on right-click anyway. This is simply a continuation of that process. I don't really see why it should cause problems for more experienced users who would easily be able to turn the option off if they didn't like it, but I think it might help newbies and less experienced users. I also think it's a more logical use of the right mouse-button.
I would not expect that on right-click, but maybe I'm not representative of the standard user. The fact that right-click currently does something that is available elsewhere is nice in my opinion, as a new user doesn't have to search for it, the menus are plain visible. Once he learns right-click gives the same menus, he can choose to use one or the other or both, so I like very much the current state of right-click (even though I don't use it myself!)
My point is, the user would have to guess those actions are on right-click. I'm not sure right-clicking has to be expected from the user (and new users were complaining back at the time right-click was the only way to have menus).
However, the idea of tools actions may be good, I just wonder where they would fit.
Feature Request: Open toolbox on right click.
Alan Horkan wrote:
On Wed, 13 Apr 2005, David Marrs wrote:
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 16:09:28 +0100 From: David Marrs
To: gimp-user@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu Subject: [Gimp-user] Feature Request: Open toolbox on right click.I posted this to the c.g.a.gimp group initially but was told that this
the wha'? not familiar with the term c.g.a.gimp
This is an abbrevation type commonly used for newsgroups, in this case comp.graphics.apps.gimp
HTH,
Michael
Feature Request: Open toolbox on right click.
Steve Stavropoulos wrote:
Having something like that in the right click I wouldn't think is very practical. A previous reply to your post made that very clear.
Indeed, I hadn't even considered that some people don't have right mouse buttons. I can't really argue against any of the points against me.
Although,
as I understand it, you propose that some actions, relevant to the current tool, should be put somewhere where people can find them quickly. You have my vote on that.
That's about the gist of it.
I propose a small horizontal toolbar (same size with the menubar) which has some actions depending on the currently selected tool.
Actually, this sounds like an all-round better idea. Would the toolbar be docked underneath the menubar or floating in its own window (or both)? It seems to me that docked would be best where the window is large enough to fit all of the tools while floating would be best where the window itself is too small but where there is consequently enough room on the rest of the desktop to accommodate it. Hmm, so basically I'm saying we should make the canvas window dockable, but just for this toolbar.
You could also make it flexible and do what you do already with dialogues, providing a number of presets while allowing users the option to customise the toolkit themselves (a system that works excellently imo).
Perhaps this could be done, but we should first try really hard and provide default shortcuts that will please most of the people.
The reason I said this is because I suspect that different people use the gimp quite differently, and will require a different set of tools, depending on their needs. So far I've been using it for developing photographs, which is why I didn't even know you could stroke a path or selection until someone brought it up in a forum. Now I'm wanting to create icons, buttons, rollover effects and other website related paraphernalia, I'm having to learn to use tools I previously never even touched and not touching tools that I previously used a lot.
This is my limited experience, at least. I'm still pretty new to the gimp all round. I've only been using it a couple of months or so.
Feature Request: Open toolbox on right click.
David Marrs wrote:
Olivier Ripoll wrote:
You can specify inthe preferences that the toolbox must be "on top". This way, you always have it available...
Try as I might, I cannot find this option!
Preferences->Window Management->Hint for the toolbox->keep above
Not everyone is using the menubar (it is optional, see the prefences): I do not. I find it unpractical since I very often use Gimp to work on small images. I think long time gimp users might also use preferentially the right-click menu to the menubar: It allows a faster/more straightforward access to the functionality. To summarise my personal opinion: The right click menu is one of the best things introduced by Gimp.
But even with the menubar switched off it can still be accessed by clicking the right-facing arrow in the top left corner of the screen, so you don't *need* the right-click. I'm not saying that it shouldn't continue to be accessible by right-clicking. It could always be a preference option, or a Shift+click option.
The difference between the right click menu and the arrow icon is with respect to Fitts law: The pixel where you already are is always the most esily accessible. This is a big reason why the right click menu is so damn useful: No need to move the mouse, no need to position the cursor on a limited-size target (arrow icon or menu toolbar).
Best regards,
Olivier
Feature Request: Open toolbox on right click.
Olivier Ripoll wrote:
David Marrs wrote:
But even with the menubar switched off it can still be accessed by clicking the right-facing arrow in the top left corner of the screen, so you don't *need* the right-click. I'm not saying that it shouldn't continue to be accessible by right-clicking. It could always be a preference option, or a Shift+click option.
The difference between the right click menu and the arrow icon is with respect to Fitts law: The pixel where you already are is always the most esily accessible. This is a big reason why the right click menu is so damn useful: No need to move the mouse, no need to position the cursor on a limited-size target (arrow icon or menu toolbar).
The right-facing arrow is very useful for tablet users - in window mode, they can click on the upper left corner of the tablet to open the menus. I don't know if they prefer to have the menu bar switched off in general, but I've seen some people doing this when they use a tablet.
If there is a context-sensitive menu or toolbar or dock, it has to be done while keeping the rest of the current layout intact, because people are used to it and do their work in so many different ways.
Any change that doesn't respect this will be a regression.
Michael
Feature Request: Open toolbox on right click.
Olivier Ripoll wrote:
David Marrs wrote:
Olivier Ripoll wrote:
You can specify inthe preferences that the toolbox must be "on top". This way, you always have it available...
Try as I might, I cannot find this option!
Preferences->Window Management->Hint for the toolbox->keep above
I'm not entirely sure what this achieves but I didn't notice any difference in window behaviour. Maybe it's because I'm running the windows port?
Feature Request: Open toolbox on right click.
You can specify inthe preferences that the toolbox must be "on top". This way, you always have it available...
Try as I might, I cannot find this option!
Preferences->Window Management->Hint for the toolbox->keep above
I'm not entirely sure what this achieves but I didn't notice any difference in window behaviour. Maybe it's because I'm running the windows port?
In a nutshell, yes. That feature is not yet available in the windows port (or at least it wasn't last time I checked).
There are some utilities availalbe for windows which allow you to forcibly add support for always on top to all your applications but that is a bit messy. If you search the gimpwin-users list at Yahoo groups you will probably find past suggestions about how to compensate for the crappy Window Management on Windows.
- Alan
Feature Request: Open toolbox on right click.
Hi,
Alan Horkan writes:
In a nutshell, yes. That feature is not yet available in the windows port (or at least it wasn't last time I checked).
That feature is implemented in the Win32 port of GDK so it is supposed to work. Actually, the main reason for adding this to GIMP was that it is supposed to work on Windows. If it doesn't work, someone should file a bug report on it. Otherwise this is not going to be fixed ever.
Sven
Feature Request: Open toolbox on right click.
Sven Neumann wrote:
Hi,
Alan Horkan writes:
In a nutshell, yes. That feature is not yet available in the windows port (or at least it wasn't last time I checked).
That feature is implemented in the Win32 port of GDK so it is supposed to work. Actually, the main reason for adding this to GIMP was that it is supposed to work on Windows. If it doesn't work, someone should file a bug report on it. Otherwise this is not going to be fixed ever.
Sven
In that case I'd better confirm exactly how this is supposed to work so that I can submit a meaningful and legitimate bug.
At the moment I have The main window (containing tools, brushes etc) and a canvas window open. If I move the canvas window so that it obscures the main window I have to either reselect the main window or press [TAB] to bring it to the front (but [TAB] will also work without the window manager hints selected to "keep above," so I don't think it's what you're talking about).
Is there another modifier key I have to press or should the main window simply always be on top?
I currently have "keep above" as the selected option for both docks and the toolbox (main window?) I don't know what "utility window" does either.
David
Feature Request: Open toolbox on right click.
On Thu, 2005-04-14 at 09:17 +0200, Olivier Ripoll wrote:
David Marrs wrote:
Olivier Ripoll wrote:
You can specify inthe preferences that the toolbox must be "on top". This way, you always have it available...
Try as I might, I cannot find this option!
Preferences->Window Management->Hint for the toolbox->keep above
Not everyone is using the menubar (it is optional, see the prefences): I do not. I find it unpractical since I very often use Gimp to work on small images. I think long time gimp users might also use preferentially the right-click menu to the menubar: It allows a faster/more straightforward access to the functionality. To summarise my personal opinion: The right click menu is one of the best things introduced by Gimp.
But even with the menubar switched off it can still be accessed by clicking the right-facing arrow in the top left corner of the screen, so you don't *need* the right-click. I'm not saying that it shouldn't continue to be accessible by right-clicking. It could always be a preference option, or a Shift+click option.
The difference between the right click menu and the arrow icon is with respect to Fitts law: The pixel where you already are is always the most esily accessible. This is a big reason why the right click menu is so damn useful: No need to move the mouse, no need to position the cursor on a limited-size target (arrow icon or menu toolbar).
How about if were bound to the arrow menu (top left)? Presently, it's bound to the menu bar. Then the menu would be available "where you already are" even if you've opted to turn off the menu bar.
Just my 2 bits, but right clicking to bring up a full menu never made sense at all to me; especially since the 2.0 branch. But then again, I use the keyboard for everything possible (i.e., key mnemonics to access the menu options, keyboard shortcuts, etc.).
Isn't the right click a contextually based menu option in the majority of software applications anyway? That's what I've been brought up to believe these past 10 years of computing.
Eric Pierce
Feature Request: Open toolbox on right click.
Sven Neumann wrote:
Hi,
Alan Horkan writes:
In a nutshell, yes. That feature is not yet available in the windows port (or at least it wasn't last time I checked).
That feature is implemented in the Win32 port of GDK so it is supposed to work. Actually, the main reason for adding this to GIMP was that it is supposed to work on Windows. If it doesn't work, someone should file a bug report on it. Otherwise this is not going to be fixed ever.
Sven
Hi Sven,
Well, in that case, I think a bug report will have to be opened. Or is
there already a bug opened for this? 1 candidate is:
http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=132501
and a related bug could be:
http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=157679
I have never seen the WM hints working under windows. They work fine under Linux though. Since the original poster had not mentionned the OS, I had wrongly assumed a unix-type.
Best regards,
Olivier.
PS: I am using gtk 2.6.4
Feature Request: Open toolbox on right click.
Hi,
David Marrs writes:
In that case I'd better confirm exactly how this is supposed to work so that I can submit a meaningful and legitimate bug.
http://developer.gnome.org/doc/API/2.0/gtk/GtkWindow.html#gtk-window-set-keep-above
Sven
Feature Request: Open toolbox on right click.
Hi,
Olivier Ripoll writes:
Well, in that case, I think a bug report will have to be opened. Or is there already a bug opened for this? 1 candidate is: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=132501 and a related bug could be:
http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=157679
None of these deal with gtk_window_set_keep_above().
I have never seen the WM hints working under windows.
They are hints only and it would be surprising if the Win32 window manager would support them in any way.
Sven
