Hi,

Popolon writes:

The menu Select could have an organisation for these conversions as:

Select->To...->[Brush/Channel/Image/Path/Pattern/...]

to avoid a to long Select menu.

and a 'Selection To Brush/Pattern' button could be in brush/Pattern windows, as there is 'Selection to Path' button in Path window.

Yes, the plan's to move the scripts out of the script-fu menu into the places they belong to. What's missing here though is a better menu registration functionality in Script-Fu. Kevin wanted to add a bug report about this. Basically we need to be able to register Script-Fus into the common menu hierarchy without breaking internationalization. What needs to be done here is do the same change we did for plug-ins and introduce a function similar to gimp_plugin_menu_register() to Script-Fu and Tiny-Fu.

Sven

On Tue, 9 Nov 2004, Popolon wrote:

Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 23:00:35 +0100 From: Popolon
To: gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu Subject: [Gimp-developer] Selection to brush/pattern/whatever in menus...

Actually in Select menu there is two items "To Path" and "Save To Channel".

I searched long time how to convert selection to brush, I think that the only way was to save brush to a file, move the file to ~/.gimp-xx/brush folder and restart gimp.

This week in a newsgroup, another guy searched didn't find how to convert a selection to a pattern. For him the only way was to save selection to move the file to ~/gimp-xx/pattern folder and restart gimp :(.

A day, don't know exactly for why, By wandering in gimp menus, I find the miraculous:
Script-Fu->Selection->To Brush/Image/Pattern

I adjusted my local version to become "Edit, Define Pattern..." (and similarly "Edit, Define Brush...").

I think the current label is incorrect and misleading because the selection itself is not being modified, the _contents_ of the selection is what is being modified (same goes for most scripts and filters).

I believe (perhaps wrong), that the human logic is to use the same tool to do nearly the same thing.

The menu Select could have an organisation for these conversions as:

Select->To...->[Brush/Channel/Image/Path/Pattern/...]

I agree that it would help if the scripts were moved to elsewhere in the menus, but I reiterate my point that I do not think they do not belong in the Select menu.

Sincerely

Alan Horkan

http://advogato.org/person/AlanHorkan/ Inkscape, Draw Freely http://inkscape.org Free SVG Clip Art http://OpenClipArt.org

]> Select->To...->[Brush/Channel/Image/Path/Pattern/...] ]
]I agree that it would help if the scripts ]were moved to elsewhere in the
]menus, but I reiterate my point that I do ]not think they do not belong ]in
]the Select menu.
]

The natural place for a user to look would be within the "brushes" dialog. (of course' it would require slightly more integration effort than reorganizing menu items)

_________________

Hi,

"shaneyfelt@juno.com" writes:

The natural place for a user to look would be within the "brushes" dialog.

Huh? If you wanted to use the current image or part of it as a brush, you would look in the Brushes dialog? Seriously?

Sven

]> The natural place for a user to look would be ]> within the "brushes" dialog.
]
]Huh? If you wanted to use the current image or part of it as a brush, ]you would look in the Brushes dialog? Seriously? ]

Seriously:

That's where brushes are managed. That's where they're deleted.
That's where they're chosen.
That's where they're created from scratch. That's where they're edited.
That's where someone looking for a brush that doesn't quite match anything already there would like to see an option to make something different. Brush editor is there (where it belongs). Brush editor is the only other tool that creates brushes. Other methods of creating brushes should be available from the same place.

Or maybe it's just too hard to put it there?

_________________

Hi,

"shaneyfelt@juno.com" writes:

]> The natural place for a user to look would be ]> within the "brushes" dialog.
]
]Huh? If you wanted to use the current image or part of it as a brush, ]you would look in the Brushes dialog? Seriously? ]

Seriously:

That's where brushes are managed. That's where they're deleted.
That's where they're chosen.
That's where they're created from scratch. That's where they're edited.
That's where someone looking for a brush that doesn't quite match anything already there would like to see an option to make something different. Brush editor is there (where it belongs).

Sorry, but I have to disagree. The brush editor may be the place where the brush ends up finally but if I want to create a brush from an image, then the function should be associated with the image. If you want to open an image file would you go to the Images dialog? When saving an image, would you use a file-manager to select the filename and expect it to ask you what you want to put there then?

Brush editor is the only other tool that creates brushes.

That isn't true. Image->Save is already creating brushes quite nicely. It's just somewhat akward that you have to select the brush file type, look for the brushes folder and refresh the brushes list when you are done. Script-Fu->Selection->To Brush solves this nicely but it should be moved to a better place in the menus.

Sven

Hi,

Sven Neumann wrote:

"shaneyfelt@juno.com" writes:

The natural place for a user to look would be within the "brushes" dialog.

Huh? If you wanted to use the current image or part of it as a brush, you would look in the Brushes dialog? Seriously?

Personally I'd look in the File menua under a "Save as..." submenu if it wasn't in the top level, but I can see that someone might think to look in the brush dialog (in the same way as someone looks in the gradients dialog to create new gradients).

Cheers, Dave.

Hi,

Sven Neumann wrote:

Script-Fu->Selection->To Brush solves this nicely but it should be moved to a better place in the menus.

It should also (IMHO) work on images and not just drawables, proposing a flatten if necessary. Every time I have used selection to brush so far, the selection was created with "select all".

Cheers,
Dave.

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004, David Neary wrote:

Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 18:21:36 +0100 From: David Neary
To: Sven Neumann
Cc: "shaneyfelt@juno.com" , horkana@maths.tcd.ie, gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] Selection to brush/pattern/whatever in menus...

Hi,

Sven Neumann wrote:

Script-Fu->Selection->To Brush solves this nicely but it should be moved to a better place in the menus.

I forgot that I made further modifcations to my local copy of the script besides moving it to "Edit, Define Brush..." I aslo removed the option to specify the filename and made the script to that automatically because if I really wanted to be able to specify the filename I could "Save As" and I preferred to to keep it as simple as possible (and I also wanted to copying how that other photo editor does it http://www.nectec.or.th/courseware/graphics/photoshop/define-brush.gif )

It is important that 'Define Brush' be significantly easier and way more useful than using 'Save As', at the moment the main advantage of the script is not needing to hunt around for the correct directory.

Now that I think about it more I remember I actaully made quite a few changes I also improved it to work with INDEXED Images and I made sure it worked if you had no existing selection.

I might have submitted it before (if I was finished and if I thought it might be accepted without too many changes) but my attempts to consolidate the code with 'Selection to Pattern' were not very successful (saved more space by not needing to include the GPL twice than anything else), and it kinda sucks not to be able to include a thumbnail sized preview in the dialog.

It should also (IMHO) work on images and not just drawables, proposing a flatten if necessary. Every time I have used selection to brush so far, the selection was created with "select all".

I'd rather not add a flatten option (or 'work on copy'), I think it is better to use the built in functionality where possible rather than complicating each script. Image Duplicate and Flatten Image work well and they both deserve shortcuts (I dont recall what the defaults are if any as I mostly use the Photoshop shortcuts).

If there is enough interest I will try and dig out my modified version later this week, I might have to forward port the changes to gimp 2.0.

Sincerely

Alan Horkan

http://advogato.org/person/AlanHorkan/ Inkscape, Draw Freely http://inkscape.org Free SVG Clip Art http://OpenClipArt.org

okay... since i'm in the Hotel California where you can check in but never check out....

from a graphic designer's point of view this is a nightmare... most of them wouldnt know how to use the Bash shell, or only the basics, let alone how to do this.

Is it possible to design a GUI implementation of the same script? The Select-To sounds good but its gotta be a short menu - preferably within the Brush palette itself... thats where we'd think to look for it...

Script-Fu is totally incomprehensible to graphic designers....

Just my 2c from the graphics corner...

mC~ (who has promised not to write on w3c issues ever again, as long as noone else does ;P )

Popolon wrote:

Actually in Select menu there is two items "To Path" and "Save To Channel".

I searched long time how to convert selection to brush, I think that the only way was to save brush to a file, move the file to ~/.gimp-xx/brush folder and restart gimp.

This week in a newsgroup, another guy searched didn't find how to convert a selection to a pattern. For him the only way was to save selection to move the file to ~/gimp-xx/pattern folder and restart gimp :(.

A day, don't know exactly for why, By wandering in gimp menus, I find the miraculous:
Script-Fu->Selection->To Brush/Image/Pattern

I believe (perhaps wrong), that the human logic is to use the same tool to do nearly the same thing.

The menu Select could have an organisation for these conversions as:

Select->To...->[Brush/Channel/Image/Path/Pattern/...]

to avoid a to long Select menu.

and a 'Selection To Brush/Pattern' button could be in brush/Pattern windows, as there is 'Selection to Path' button in Path window.

This could improve speed of The Gimp apprenticeship and workflow for some tasks.

Regards

Popolon

_______________________________________________ Gimp-developer mailing list
Gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer

Script-Fu is totally incomprehensible to graphic designers....

it depends. i am a fluent script-fu speaker for example.

just to clarify - i'm here contributing from the point of view of a professional graphic designer, considering the mainstream Adobe/Macromedia market who would have never used GIMP, and how we can 'convert them over' . This market are of the 'pick it up and use it' intuitive designers - they will reject at sight anything that requires coding, or obscure menus.

testing this morning the latest version i found it incredibly difficult just to apply a drop-shadow to text or objects - which is an absolute essential. i can't understand why this is hidden in Script-Fu - then once you try to make a selection it has to run through all of them - i'm testing on Win XP as the majority of users will be Windows or Mac - will test on GNU/Linux once i have the disk space. that has issues of its own - graphic designers cannot compile. nor do they understand libraries (Sodipodi failed on me this morning because of a missing dll, and a designer without experience of code (i have some limited experience) would have no idea how to correct this.

the Script-Fu dialog comes up behind the image, instead of in the regular toolbox - which makes it impossible to find - for quite a while i thought the effect wasnt going to happen at all. after that i had the strange experience of hitting cancel a million times to find the selection I wanted.

Layers and layer effects are working very nicely though and are intuitive.

On the whole, I'm finding it much easier to use than before - my comments may seem harsh but have to be seen in context from my first humble appearance on the list - i'm kinda bug-testing from a professional designer's point of view.

Also - anyone have an address for the Inkscape-devel and Sodipodi-devel lists? I've been trying to test these and contribute also but havent found the lists yet. Inkscape is impressive, but could do with some 'eye candy' - thats another important factor for designers, we're competing with the Windows and Mac toolkits, and frankly GTK looks pretty darn strange and ugly to a designer - it'll put them off using a really good tool. Inkscape on the whole did what i wanted when i learnt how it 'thought', but wouldnt open and reopen from Illustrator. I'd very much like to report these experiences to their list and see how they are tackling them. Sodipodi... sorry, its still unfathomable even when I had it running on Win ME....

Best,

Miriam.

Jakub Friedl (lists) wrote:

Script-Fu is totally incomprehensible to graphic designers....

it depends. i am a fluent script-fu speaker for example. _______________________________________________ Gimp-developer mailing list
Gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer

Also - anyone have an address for the Inkscape-devel and Sodipodi-devel lists?

http://www.inkscape.org/mailing_lists.php http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/sodipodi-list

here you are

candy' - thats another important factor for designers, we're competing with the Windows and Mac toolkits, and frankly GTK looks pretty darn

mac is nice - but windows? the main reason I switched to linux (now I know many better reasons, of course, so do not laugh at me) was that I was not able to look at the UGLY and gaudy windows user interface. GTK/Gnome, or other Linux GUIs too, can be really beautiful while still easy on eyes and not distracting with proper themes

strange and ugly to a designer - it'll put them off using a really good

and again, most money I have ever earned was for graphic design or other graphic work on computer (DTP mainly)

tackling them. Sodipodi... sorry, its still unfathomable even when I had it running on Win ME....

please use Win 98 or XP if you have to use Windows, but not ME. It is the worst system from Microsoft available.

Hi,

Alan Horkan wrote:

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004, David Neary wrote:

It should also (IMHO) work on images and not just drawables, proposing a flatten if necessary. Every time I have used selection to brush so far, the selection was created with "select all".

I'd rather not add a flatten option (or 'work on copy'), I think it is better to use the built in functionality where possible rather than complicating each script. Image Duplicate and Flatten Image work well and they both deserve shortcuts (I dont recall what the defaults are if any as I mostly use the Photoshop shortcuts).

I meant as an export operation. In general, if you pass a file to a save operation that it doesn't support, it proposes an export operation to convert to a format supported (like saving an RGB image as gif, for example). I'm not sure how that's done, but I imagine that it's mostly in the core.

Cheers, Dave.

(sorry for all the offtopic comments about inkscape)

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004, miriam clinton (iriXx) wrote:

Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 11:17:20 -0800 From: "miriam clinton (iriXx)"
To: "Jakub Friedl (lists)"
Cc: gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] Selection to brush/pattern/whatever in menus...

just to clarify - i'm here contributing from the point of view of a professional graphic designer, considering the mainstream Adobe/Macromedia market who would have never used GIMP, and how we can 'convert them over' . This market are of the 'pick it up and use it' intuitive designers - they will reject at sight anything that requires coding, or obscure menus.

I think this is very understandable. I'm a big fan of the Plugin Browser as it makes it easier to find out what is where in the menus, but to learn the gimp you still really need to work your way through and do your best to try everything (I'm still learning).

I have been switching between Adobe Photoshop quite a bit recently and to make it easier for me to learn to use it (and have a marketable skill) I have switch my copy of the gimp to use the psmenurc which provides Photoshop like keybindings for menu items. (apologies if I have suggested this to you before but I think it is always worth mentioning to new users already familiar with Photoshop)

testing this morning the latest version i found it incredibly difficult just to apply a drop-shadow to text or objects - which is an absolute essential. i can't understand why this is hidden in Script-Fu - then

Developers tend to organise things by how they were made, what programming language was used but I think it is now generally accepted that it makes more sense to group menu items by what they do and some progress is being made but it is difficult to come up with a coherent plan because it is something that would be better changed in one go rather than incrementally to reduce any potential confusion for existing users.

This report goes some way to coming up with a plan http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=116145

and this wiki page contains other ideas http://wiki.gimp.org/gimp/GimpMenuReorganization

(I think renaming Filters to Effects is more trouble than it is worth, but we'll see what happens after gimp 2.2).

once you try to make a selection it has to run through all of them - i'm testing on Win XP as the majority of users will be Windows or Mac - will

I'd be surprised if the number of non-Windows gimp users didn't come close to or exceed the number of windows users, download statistics might provide some indications but that wouldn't cover the fact that the gimp is the defacto standard for graphics on Linux (wherease on windows there is mspaint (yes I'm absolutely serious).

You have already explained the point of view you are coming from but I think that it is important to remember that the gimp is probably used occassionally by many users as oppossed to Adobe Photoshop which would be used heavily (almost exlusively) by graphic designers. If anything it makes it even more important that the gimp should be easy to use.

test on GNU/Linux once i have the disk space. that has issues of its own - graphic designers cannot compile. nor do they understand libraries

There are various Live CDs which I would happily recommend, I first tried gimp 2.0 on Knoppix.

Other Live CDs that run Gnome by default include the Ubuntu Live CD and the Java Desktop System Live CD from Sun Microsystems http://jdshelp.org/ (although unfortunately it is too popular for its own good at the moment).

(Sodipodi failed on me this morning because of a missing dll, and a designer without experience of code (i have some limited experience) would have no idea how to correct this.

the Script-Fu dialog comes up behind the image, instead of in the regular toolbox - which makes it impossible to find - for quite a while i thought the effect wasnt going to happen at all. after that i had the strange experience of hitting cancel a million times to find the selection I wanted.

Layers and layer effects are working very nicely though and are intuitive.

On the whole, I'm finding it much easier to use than before - my comments may seem harsh but have to be seen in context from my first humble appearance on the list - i'm kinda bug-testing from a professional designer's point of view.

I think the professional designers are going to be almost impossible to get to switch but it might be possible to convince them to also use the gimp in addition to their existing software if migration is made easier and there are a few things that the gimp does much better than other software.

The difficulty of getting them to switch completely is compounded by their requirement to support their library of exisiting files in a proprietary format, and their collections of brushes and scripts that are difficult to convert. It is better to completely purge from our minds the the idea of getting them to switch and to instead hope that the gimp can become another useful tool in their paintbox.

Also - anyone have an address for the Inkscape-devel and Sodipodi-devel lists? I've been trying to test these and contribute also but havent

This is probably considered offtopic and I'm more than a little surprised you were unable to find the answer on your own. Given that you know the lists are called inkscape-devel and sodipodi-devel you might have even been able to guess that they were @lists.sourceforge.net

Alternatively the Inkscacpe Website http://inkscape.org/ inlcudes a link to the mailing lists on the left sidebar about 11 items down, http://inkscape.org/mailing_lists.php and the subscription page for the Inkscape developer mailing list is here http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel

The layout of the Sodipodi website is a little more confusing, there is a link to the mailng lists from the Developement page and probably other places too
http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=4054

found the lists yet. Inkscape is impressive, but could do with some 'eye candy' - thats another important factor for designers, we're competing

I thought the screenshots and tutorials were a good start when it comes to eye candy http://inkscape.org/screenshots/index.php and the OpenClipart.org project includes many examples of what Inkscape (and Sodipodi and other SVG software) can achieve but maybe I'm being overly generous.

with the Windows and Mac toolkits, and frankly GTK looks pretty darn strange and ugly to a designer - it'll put them off using a really good

You would probably be more forgiving of GTK if you were using it on Linux and were taking advantage of themes.

tool. Inkscape on the whole did what i wanted when i learnt how it 'thought', but wouldnt open and reopen from Illustrator. I'd very much like to report these experiences to their list and see how they are tackling them.

The Inkscape developers would definately like to hear your opinions and are willing to ajust things to accomdate Illustrator users (up to a point) as things are being changed around a lot at the moment that means there is both room for flexibility and it also means that it is essentail that you make sure to try a fully up-to-date Nightly build.

Sincerely

Alan Horkan

http://advogato.org/person/AlanHorkan/ Inkscape, Draw Freely http://inkscape.org Free SVG Clip Art http://OpenClipArt.org

Miriam

okay... since i'm in the Hotel California where you can check in but never check out....

Sorry that the you were unable to unsubscribe, I have no idea why the unsubscribe system didn't work for you but I'm pretty sure the developers were joking and that if you are still unable to unsubscribe having done your best to try the various methods available that they would be willing to take you off the list but I hope you will volutarily stick around a little longer.

Is it possible to design a GUI implementation of the same script? The Select-To sounds good but its gotta be a short menu - preferably within the Brush palette itself... thats where we'd think to look for it...

I'm not sure you realise there already is a script under Script-Fu/Selection/To Brush...

which will take the contents of the current selection, ask you to give it a name and then save it to the brushes folder.

Script-Fu is totally incomprehensible to graphic designers....

Not just graphic designers :)

Scheme is an 'interesting' programming language but it sort of has its charms if and when you can eventually figure it out. I'd still like an automatic script recorder though.

- Alan H.

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004, David Neary wrote:

Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 21:36:18 +0100 From: David Neary
To: Alan Horkan
Cc: gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] Selection to brush/pattern/whatever in menus...

Hi,

Alan Horkan wrote:

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004, David Neary wrote:

It should also (IMHO) work on images and not just drawables, proposing a flatten if necessary. Every time I have used selection to brush so far, the selection was created with "select all".

I'd rather not add a flatten option (or 'work on copy'), I think it is better to use the built in functionality where possible rather than complicating each script. Image Duplicate and Flatten Image work well and they both deserve shortcuts (I dont recall what the defaults are if any as I mostly use the Photoshop shortcuts).

I meant as an export operation. In general, if you pass a file to a save operation that it doesn't support, it proposes an export operation to convert to a format supported (like saving an RGB image as gif, for example). I'm not sure how that's done, but I imagine that it's mostly in the core.

Apologies.
That makes a lot more sense.

However in gimp 2.0 if you use File, 'Save as', then choose Gimp Brush (.gbr) and if your image contains multiple layers you are already asked to Export and advised to flatten the image. Perhaps I'm still misunderstanding you.

Sincerely

Alan Horkan

http://advogato.org/person/AlanHorkan/ Inkscape, Draw Freely http://inkscape.org Free SVG Clip Art http://OpenClipArt.org

Hi,

Alan Horkan wrote:

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004, David Neary wrote:

Alan Horkan wrote:

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004, David Neary wrote:

It should also (IMHO) work on images and not just drawables, proposing a flatten if necessary. Every time I have used selection to brush so far, the selection was created with "select all".

I'd rather not add a flatten option (or 'work on copy'),

I meant as an export operation.

However in gimp 2.0 if you use File, 'Save as', then choose Gimp Brush (.gbr) and if your image contains multiple layers you are already asked to Export and advised to flatten the image. Perhaps I'm still misunderstanding you.

Yeah, I think so. The "Save as brush" or "Save as pattern" scripts should not only be active on a selection, they should work on an image. Since sending an image to the gbr plug-in results in a flatten operation if necessary, that's great.

So there's no need for a flatten operation, and my "it should flatten if necessary" comment was superfluous :)

Cheers, Dave.

Hi,

David Neary writes:

I meant as an export operation. In general, if you pass a file to a save operation that it doesn't support, it proposes an export operation to convert to a format supported (like saving an RGB image as gif, for example). I'm not sure how that's done, but I imagine that it's mostly in the core.

It happens completely in the plug-in. Well, of course the plug-in is calling core functionality using the PDB but the plug-in creates the export dialog and runs the export process.

Sven

Hi,

"miriam clinton (iriXx)" writes:

Script-Fu is totally incomprehensible to graphic designers....

Actually you are not supposed to recognize that it's a script-fu. How to achieve that is what we are discussing at the moment.

Sven

]> ]> The natural place for a user to look would be ]> ]> within the "brushes" dialog.
]> ]Huh? ...? Seriously?

]> Seriously: ]> That's where brushes ...
]> Brush editor is the only other tool that creates brushes.

]That isn't true. Image->Save ...

I stand corrected. Brush editor is the only other tool dedicated to creation and manipulation of brushes.

The point is that creating a brush from an image or some part thereof should be done around the same place as you can delete or create a brushes by other means.

Doubleclicking the brush gets you to the Brushes dialog. The brush editor is there, where it's quite intuitive, but limited.

]... Image->Save ... It's just somewhat akward ...

You're right, it's a bit of an inconvenience to have to navigate, but at least the new file chooser helps :)

_-T

_________________

Jakub Friedl (lists) wrote:

please use Win 98 or XP if you have to use Windows, but not ME. It is the worst system from Microsoft available.

I'm testing on both Win ME (forced to by a proprietary laptop) and XP. XP has a nice widget set. But a designer - a vanilla designer, not a programmer-designer like yourself, wouldnt have a clue what a widget is....

mC~

Hmm, will give it a try. Again, not easy to find - designers also work under a great deal of pressure to get stuff done fast, and a tool where selections appear obscured will not encourage them so easily. Cinepaint, though, has had a great deal of success. I'm going to be interested to compile it (again a problem for designers) and have a taste.

The name Script-Fu is cute, but /very/ programmer-speak... a designer has no idea what it means, or that it means 'look for effects here'....

mC~

Popolon wrote:

That was about the GUI menu...
In menu bar, there is a Script-Fu menu with Selection sub-menu containing the To Brush item.
Shorter it's:
Script-Fu->Selection->To Brush

miriam clinton (iriXx) wrote:

okay... since i'm in the Hotel California where you can check in but never check out....

from a graphic designer's point of view this is a nightmare... most of them wouldnt know how to use the Bash shell, or only the basics, let alone how to do this.

Is it possible to design a GUI implementation of the same script? The Select-To sounds good but its gotta be a short menu - preferably within the Brush palette itself... thats where we'd think to look for it...

Script-Fu is totally incomprehensible to graphic designers....

Just my 2c from the graphics corner...

mC~ (who has promised not to write on w3c issues ever again, as long as noone else does ;P )

Popolon wrote:

Actually in Select menu there is two items "To Path" and "Save To Channel".

I searched long time how to convert selection to brush, I think that the only way was to save brush to a file, move the file to ~/.gimp-xx/brush folder and restart gimp.

This week in a newsgroup, another guy searched didn't find how to convert a selection to a pattern. For him the only way was to save selection to move the file to ~/gimp-xx/pattern folder and restart gimp :(.

A day, don't know exactly for why, By wandering in gimp menus, I find the miraculous:
Script-Fu->Selection->To Brush/Image/Pattern

I believe (perhaps wrong), that the human logic is to use the same tool to do nearly the same thing.

The menu Select could have an organisation for these conversions as:

Select->To...->[Brush/Channel/Image/Path/Pattern/...]

to avoid a to long Select menu.

and a 'Selection To Brush/Pattern' button could be in brush/Pattern windows, as there is 'Selection to Path' button in Path window.

This could improve speed of The Gimp apprenticeship and workflow for some tasks.

Regards

Popolon

_______________________________________________ Gimp-developer mailing list
Gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer

Sven Neumann wrote:

Hi,

"miriam clinton (iriXx)" writes:

Script-Fu is totally incomprehensible to graphic designers....

Actually you are not supposed to recognize that it's a script-fu. How to achieve that is what we are discussing at the moment.

Sven

Brilliant!

I was just saying that the very name Script-Fu is cute, but doesnt really say to a designer 'look for cool fx here'... or even your standard effects (drop shadow is an /essential/ and must not be obscured).

Just to explain - I dropped out of this list for a while after an argument over my website and w3c issues. As i said, I've promised not to bring up the issue again as long as noone else does ;). But that explains why I havent been following for the last week or so.

Best,

mC~

On Fri, Nov 12, 2004 at 02:41:05AM -0800, miriam clinton (iriXx) wrote:

Carol Spears wrote:

On Thu, Nov 11, 2004 at 11:17:20AM -0800, miriam clinton (iriXx) wrote:

just to clarify - i'm here contributing from the point of view of a professional graphic designer, considering the mainstream Adobe/Macromedia market who would have never used GIMP, and how we can 'convert them over' . This market are of the 'pick it up and use it' intuitive designers - they will reject at sight anything that requires coding, or obscure menus.

have them hire someone who knows gimp for the same income. have them, at the end of the year, tally up how much each employee actually costed and compare it to their ability to produce actual results and know where all of the pieces came from.

i think we will fail in selling this to people who need their employers to provide very much cushiony stuff for them and then they dont really know that much once this is all said and done.

we should talk to their employers instead.

who employes you?

carol

I'm freelance, have worked for a variety of companies in temporary contracts or purely freelance (I value my independence, and owning my own company).

I would say it would take me at least double or triple time to produce a website in GIMP comparable to the industry-standard websites I produce using a combination of Fireworks/Photoshop/Dreamweaver.

you took classes on how to use this software? or self-educated?

carol

Sven Neumann wrote:

Yes, the plan's to move the scripts out of the script-fu menu into the places they belong to. What's missing here though is a better menu registration functionality in Script-Fu. Kevin wanted to add a bug report about this.

Actually, I was originally expecting Sven to add the bug report since he was the one who first mentioned this. :-) I have gone ahead and entered it in to bugzilla (bug #158117). I will shortly be attaching a patch file to the report which, while not yet working, provides the framework of what is needed and can be used to spark further discussions or suggestions for changes.

Carol Spears wrote:

On Fri, Nov 12, 2004 at 02:41:05AM -0800, miriam clinton (iriXx) wrote:

Carol Spears wrote:

On Thu, Nov 11, 2004 at 11:17:20AM -0800, miriam clinton (iriXx) wrote:

just to clarify - i'm here contributing from the point of view of a professional graphic designer, considering the mainstream Adobe/Macromedia market who would have never used GIMP, and how we can 'convert them over' . This market are of the 'pick it up and use it' intuitive designers - they will reject at sight anything that requires coding, or obscure menus.

have them hire someone who knows gimp for the same income. have them, at the end of the year, tally up how much each employee actually costed and compare it to their ability to produce actual results and know where all of the pieces came from.

i think we will fail in selling this to people who need their employers to provide very much cushiony stuff for them and then they dont really know that much once this is all said and done.

we should talk to their employers instead.

who employes you?

carol

I'm freelance, have worked for a variety of companies in temporary contracts or purely freelance (I value my independence, and owning my own company).

I would say it would take me at least double or triple time to produce a website in GIMP comparable to the industry-standard websites I produce using a combination of Fireworks/Photoshop/Dreamweaver.

you took classes on how to use this software? or self-educated?

carol

Home-educated by a mother who did a degree in Fine Arts and taught for ~10 years. Don't worry, i'm an awful lot older than a kid now.

mC~

Carol Spears wrote:

On Fri, Nov 12, 2004 at 02:41:05AM -0800, miriam clinton (iriXx) wrote:

I'm freelance, have worked for a variety of companies in temporary contracts or purely freelance (I value my independence, and owning my own company).

I would say it would take me at least double or triple time to produce a website in GIMP comparable to the industry-standard websites I produce using a combination of Fireworks/Photoshop/Dreamweaver.

you took classes on how to use this software? or self-educated?

carol

Oh and yes, for the record, I picked these tools up and used them - my mother was a painter, not a graphic designer. I learnt the tools in about.... 30mins.

Compared to the GIMP which I still havent got my head around.... hence my wanting to contribute - better to contribute than to whinge!

mC~

On Fri, Nov 12, 2004 at 02:41:41PM -0800, miriam clinton (iriXx) wrote:

Carol Spears wrote:

hi, i am really glad that you stuck with this list. since making this excellent decision, might i direct you to this document: http://www.gimp.org/mail_lists.html and ask that you at least strip the mail the way they ask. they ask me to improve my hardware to work with them, but there are or could be people who are reading this list who store the mails or what have you where size is important.

you took classes on how to use this software? or self-educated?

Oh and yes, for the record, I picked these tools up and used them - my mother was a painter, not a graphic designer. I learnt the tools in about.... 30mins.

Compared to the GIMP which I still havent got my head around.... hence my wanting to contribute - better to contribute than to whinge!

this is very nice. i dont think that it answered my question though. very nice to be raised in a loving environment with access to many tools and such. gimp was developed by people of all sorts. some had this sort of upbringing and access and some didnt. congratulations to you for deserving all this or whatever.

my question, and i could have been more specific, was more about the software you use and the computer you use it on. classes in adobe/macromedia and experience with preinstalled operating systems is what i was looking for exactly.

software will never be simple enough for people who need formal training in it. operating systems are difficult to install. i hear complaints from anyone who needs to install any operating system. i really am trying to determine if this is the case with you. if you are used to macintosh, there is a chance that you are used to having everything installed for you and TheGIMP and its fellow free apps might always be out of your grasp.

none of this is personal. access is a nice thing. not having access and being able to get this stuff free and legal like is another thing. both are blessings or gifts from life?

direct questions: did you have classes in using the software you are comfortable with? pay for books or tutoring?

have you even been able to install an operating system on a computer you are in charge of?

thanks,
carol

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Laxminarayan Kamath
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 12:23:11 +0530 Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] Selection to brush/pattern/whatever in menus... To: irixx@irixx.org

some day, someone write:

I would say it would take me at least double or triple time to produce a website in GIMP comparable to the industry-standard websites I produce using a combination of Fireworks/Photoshop/Dreamweaver.

y do u use GIMP alone? just add it 2 ur long(?) list of apps.

-- Laxminarayan Kamath Ammembal
kamathln@gmail.com
kamathln@rediffmail.com
kamathln@yahoo.com
www.geocities.com/kamathln

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Carol Spears
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 09:44:14 -0800 Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] Selection to brush/pattern/whatever in menus... To: "miriam clinton (iriXx)" , GIMPDev

On Fri, Nov 12, 2004 at 02:41:41PM -0800, miriam clinton (iriXx) wrote:

Carol Spears wrote:

hi, i am really glad that you stuck with this list. since making this excellent decision, might i direct you to this document: http://www.gimp.org/mail_lists.html and ask that you at least strip the mail the way they ask. they ask me to improve my hardware to work with them, but there are or could be people who are reading this list who store the mails or what have you where size is important.

you took classes on how to use this software? or self-educated?

Oh and yes, for the record, I picked these tools up and used them - my mother was a painter, not a graphic designer. I learnt the tools in about.... 30mins.

Compared to the GIMP which I still havent got my head around.... hence my wanting to contribute - better to contribute than to whinge!

this is very nice. i dont think that it answered my question though. very nice to be raised in a loving environment with access to many tools and such. gimp was developed by people of all sorts. some had this sort of upbringing and access and some didnt. congratulations to you for deserving all this or whatever.

my question, and i could have been more specific, was more about the software you use and the computer you use it on. classes in adobe/macromedia and experience with preinstalled operating systems is what i was looking for exactly.

software will never be simple enough for people who need formal training in it. operating systems are difficult to install. i hear complaints from anyone who needs to install any operating system. i really am trying to determine if this is the case with you. if you are used to macintosh, there is a chance that you are used to having everything installed for you and TheGIMP and its fellow free apps might always be out of your grasp.

none of this is personal. access is a nice thing. not having access and being able to get this stuff free and legal like is another thing. both are blessings or gifts from life?

direct questions: did you have classes in using the software you are comfortable with? pay for books or tutoring?

have you even been able to install an operating system on a computer you are in charge of?

thanks,
carol

Gimp-developer mailing list
Gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu
http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer

Please forgive me forwarded wrong message(carol's) by mistake previously.

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: miriam clinton (iriXx)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 11:48:27 -0800 Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] Selection to brush/pattern/whatever in menus... To: Laxminarayan Kamath

Laxminarayan Kamath wrote:

some day, someone write:

I would say it would take me at least double or triple time to produce a website in GIMP comparable to the industry-standard websites I produce using a combination of Fireworks/Photoshop/Dreamweaver.

y do u use GIMP alone? just add it 2 ur long(?) list of apps.

Firstly - did you mean to reply to the group or just me? if the group, feel free to repost my message. its Free (licensed) anyhow ;)

i don't just use GIMP... this is the end of a long thread... i'm a professional designer and have been forced in the past to use proprietary apps to get the effects i want, to be industry compliant and to simply find a user interface that is intuitive for a designer (who thinks in pictures) to use.

i'm here on the invitation of RMS to try and comment from a designer's point of view on what may be missing or why designers find it impossible to get their heads around certain aspects of GIMP. gimp2 is very close but things like finding drop-shadow (an absolute essential, which really should be on the nav boards at all times) in Script-fu will put off a designer. designers dont like the word Script - they're scared of it. as for Script-fu, they'd have no idea... and Drop Shadow is hidden somewhere down the bottom.

Even under Layer effects would be an idea - now thats not a bad one... very, very accessible and obvious.

but the purpose of this thread is to do exactly this - its now being considered to implement such things under brushes i believe (i've been off for about a week so i'm still catching up).

Gonna grab the bleeding edge CVS today - whats the latest stable-ish edition to compile and use on Mandrake 10.0 ?

thanx

mC~

-- 99% of aliens prefer Earth
--Eminem

www.iriXx.org
www.copyleftmedia.org.uk