On 4 Feb 2004, at 0:15, Tor Lillqvist wrote:

(Cc:ing to the gimp-developer list.)

mi315810@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu writes:

I just wanted to add an SDI type view of GIMP, that way when you don't have all the floaty windows.

In GIMP 2, there are already the possibilities of showing the main menu in the image window (I believe it's on by default), and of docking most other windows, so that you don't have too many floaty windows.

There has also been discussion about some MDI type interface, although the main developers seem dead against it, mainly on account of that they feel this is something that should be solved using the window manager, not the application.

Please check the bug database (http://bugs.gimp.org), the archives of this mailing list and perhaps anything you can find in Google.

Hi,

"Branko Collin" writes:

I just wanted to add an SDI type view of GIMP, that way when you don't have all the floaty windows.

In GIMP 2, there are already the possibilities of showing the main menu in the image window (I believe it's on by default), and of docking most other windows, so that you don't have too many floaty windows.

There has also been discussion about some MDI type interface, although the main developers seem dead against it, mainly on account of that they feel this is something that should be solved using the window manager, not the application.

Please note that GIMP does MDI (multiple document interface) already, it just doesn't folllow the WiW (window in window) approach that some people seem to prefer for obscure reasons.

A good window manager makes the window-in-window concept unnecessary. However if someone wanted to develop such an approach for all the poor users that are forced to use a not so advanced window manager, then it should probably be addressed at the toolkit level.

Sven

There has also been discussion about some MDI type interface, although the main developers seem dead against it, mainly on account of that they feel this is something that should be solved using the window manager, not the application.

Please note that GIMP does MDI (multiple document interface) already, it just doesn't folllow the WiW (window in window) approach that some people seem to prefer for obscure reasons.

A good window manager makes the window-in-window concept unnecessary. However if someone wanted to develop such an approach for all the poor users that are forced to use a not so advanced window manager, then it should probably be addressed at the toolkit level.

What Sven is saying, is that it is basically impossible to get Window in Window support working on linux. You can do it, but is sucks a whole, whole lot. On Windows, the best approach will be to add support for Window-in-Window to gtk+ our gui toolkit, as that kind of feature shouldn't be implemented in the gimp.

-- Daniel

Daniel Rogers wrote:

A good window manager makes the window-in-window concept unnecessary. However if someone wanted to develop such an approach for all the poor users that are forced to use a not so advanced window manager, then it should probably be addressed at the toolkit level.

What Sven is saying, is that it is basically impossible to get Window in Window support working on linux.

Just a small precision - it is impossible to do WiW with gtk+. QT does it OK. And in fact, there is a project (I don't recall the name) which does just that - creates a window, and then embeds GIMP windows in it, using QT.

Cheers, Dave.

Hi,

Dave Neary writes:

Just a small precision - it is impossible to do WiW with gtk+.

I woulnd't say it's impossible; it would be cumbersome though.

QT does it OK. And in fact, there is a project (I don't recall the name) which does just that - creates a window, and then embeds GIMP windows in it, using QT.

That "project" was a stupid hack and stopped working months ago. Xnest on the other hand works perfectly well for this task.

Sven

From: Sven Neumann
Date: 04 Feb 2004 15:08:43 +0100

Please note that GIMP does MDI (multiple document interface) already, it just doesn't folllow the WiW (window in window) approach that some people seem to prefer for obscure reasons.

Every reference I've ever seen to MDI refers to window in window. I don't understand the purpose of that at all (and I happen to really detest it, in any event, since it wastes a lot of screen space).

Please note that GIMP does MDI (multiple document interface) already, it just doesn't folllow the WiW (window in window) approach that some people seem to prefer for obscure reasons.

Every reference I've ever seen to MDI refers to window in window. I don't understand the purpose of that at all (and I happen to really detest it, in any event, since it wastes a lot of screen space).

When using the GIMP I prefer to have the document window maximized. On windows this means that the Toolbox will get pushed behind and it is extremely awkward and I believe this is a significant part of the problem that most users want solved. Something as simple as an always on top option for the toolbox might be enough to make things easier for users like me who occasionally use crappy window managers.

Speaking of maxmising the avialable workspace and it does seem to be of interst to more users than just me (I love the fullscreen mode by the way and) is there any way to hide the scrollbars? I would like to be able to get rid of the scrollbars and use keys for scrolling* up and down the page or alternatively use the overview/navigation widget.
[the following bug is asking for the ability to use specific keys for scrolling, currently there doesn't seem to be ANY way to assign ANY keys at all to scrolling http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=53988 ]

Sincerely

Alan Horkan http://advogato.org/person/AlanHorkan/

Hi,

Alan Horkan writes:

When using the GIMP I prefer to have the document window maximized. On windows this means that the Toolbox will get pushed behind and it is extremely awkward and I believe this is a significant part of the problem that most users want solved. Something as simple as an always on top option for the toolbox might be enough to make things easier for users like me who occasionally use crappy window managers.

The code is already prepared to use gtk_window_keep_above() but we will need GTK+-2.4 for this so this will have to wait for GIMP-2.2.

Speaking of maxmising the avialable workspace and it does seem to be of interst to more users than just me (I love the fullscreen mode by the way and) is there any way to hide the scrollbars?

Sure, it's in the View menu and you can configure the default appearance (for fullscreen and normal view) in the preferences dialog. I wonder why you didn't look there.

I would like to be able to get rid of the scrollbars and use keys for scrolling* up and down the page or alternatively use the overview/navigation widget.
[the following bug is asking for the ability to use specific keys for scrolling, currently there doesn't seem to be ANY way to assign ANY keys at all to scrolling http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=53988 ]

I might be wrong but shouldn't you be able to specify keys for scrolling using GTK+ bindings?

Sven

scrolling, currently there doesn't seem to be ANY way to assign ANY keys at all to scrolling http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=53988 ]

I might be wrong but shouldn't you be able to specify keys for scrolling using GTK+ bindings?

without a recompile?
if so please point me to the relevant documentation? (if it requires a recompile I'm afraid it is only slightly better than useless)

- Alan

On Fri, Feb 06, 2004 at 02:08:47AM +0000, Alan Horkan wrote:

scrolling, currently there doesn't seem to be ANY way to assign ANY keys at all to scrolling http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=53988 ]

I might be wrong but shouldn't you be able to specify keys for scrolling using GTK+ bindings?

without a recompile?
if so please point me to the relevant documentation? (if it requires a recompile I'm afraid it is only slightly better than useless)

It's gtkrc based. No recompilation needed.

There's examples in testgtkrc in the gtk sources, and possibly stuff you can find on google.

-Yosh

is there any hope for tablet (with pressure sensitivity at least) support in win port of the gimp?
after the release of 2.0 it is the last thing which keep me (and many others i know) from replacing photoshop by the gimp and i would love to replace it

Hi,

"Jakub Friedl (listy)" writes:

is there any hope for tablet (with pressure sensitivity at least) support in win port of the gimp?

Perhaps you should consider to buy one of the few Win32 developers a tablet?

Sven

It's mostly a question of inspiration and resources (access to a tablet and time). I do have a tablet (have had for a long time), but to tell the truth I rarely use it. I might have the inspiration. But, very seldom do I have time for one of those several hours long concentrated intense hacking sessions that I assume would be needed. And when I have such time, there always seems to be some other, more urgent, bug that needs fixing ;-)

this bug stops many users from using gimp. i think it is very serious and need to be repaired ASAP.
but i do not have the coding skills necessary to do it :o( so it seems i have to learn. but it will take
a very long time to learn enough to be able to contribute code to the gimp

BTW i would like to contribute to Gimp development now. Is there any need for translations or something like that? I can translate to Czech language, I am very experienced Gimp user on both windows and linux and I have written many tutorials for Gimp.

it would be very nice to see history brush tool in the gimp.

Does it really? Aren't tablets (at least the more expensive, pressure- and tilt-sensitive ones) mainly used by graphics arts professionals? These guys typically live and breathe in Photoshop, don't they? I doubt they would switch en masse to GIMP, even if their tablets did work perfectly in GIMP on Windows.

--tml

I am a graphics arts professional and I use mainly Gimp. I do not need pre-press functions like CMYK and so on so I am perfectly happy with current Gimp on Linux (2.0 is wonderful, i thank all developers!) BTW tablets are not only used by professionals, but also by many hobbyists, for example digital photographers. I know many amateur photographers which would use Gimp if it supported their tablet. A small tablet (with pressure sensitivity) can be bought for less than 50 Euro and this price is perfectly reasonable for any graphic arts hobbyist. At least it is far cheaper than Photoshop.

Hi,

"Jakub Friedl (listy)" writes:

It's mostly a question of inspiration and resources (access to a tablet and time). I do have a tablet (have had for a long time), but to tell the truth I rarely use it. I might have the inspiration. But, very seldom do I have time for one of those several hours long concentrated intense hacking sessions that I assume would be needed. And when I have such time, there always seems to be some other, more urgent, bug that needs fixing ;-)

this bug stops many users from using gimp. i think it is very serious and need to be repaired ASAP.
but i do not have the coding skills necessary to do it :o( so it seems i have to learn. but it will take
a very long time to learn enough to be able to contribute code to the gimp

As Tor already pointed out, this issue would have to be fixed at the GDK level (that is in the GTK+ project), not in The GIMP.

BTW i would like to contribute to Gimp development now. Is there any need for translations or something like that? I can translate to Czech language, I am very experienced Gimp user on both windows and linux and I have written many tutorials for Gimp.

Perhaps you would like to contribute to the gimp-help-2 project then. These people are writing the online help for gimp2. See http://wiki.gimp.org/gimp/GimpDocs

Sven

Perhaps you would like to contribute to the gimp-help-2 project then. These people are writing the online help for gimp2. See http://wiki.gimp.org/gimp/GimpDocs

thank you for pointing me there. i am going to join the project :o)

Jakub Friedl (listy) escreveu:

it would be very nice to see history brush tool in the gimp.

Maybe you'd like to be more descriptive on that.

Do not think that all, or even most, people who filddel around in the GIMP goes using photoshop or whatever in the meantime to know about it's features or does or dont's.