Hi,

David Neary writes:

The web team says it's ready to move, several developers have said they want it to move now, I just wanted to sort out what exactly is preventing the website move.

What needs to be done to get www pointing at mmmaybe, and get wwwas pointing at www? Who has permission to do it? If only one person has the permissions to do this kind of thing, it would be nice to have at least 2 or 3 others get the necessary right to avoid these kinds of non-technical delays in the future. There is no reason why mmmaybe shouldn't have become www a couple of weeks ago.

If you would have read gimp-web list (where this topic should actually be discussed), you would know that there were good reasons for not doing the move immidiately. I believe that most or evenall of these points have been addressed in the meantime but we should leave it up to the web team to decide when they want to move the site.

I appreciate that you are trying to motivate them but I am afraid that such a mail to the gimp-developer list isn't really helpful at all.

Sven

On 5 Oct 2003, at 11:10, David Neary wrote:

The web team says it's ready to move, several developers have said they want it to move now, I just wanted to sort out what exactly is preventing the website move.

What needs to be done to get www pointing at mmmaybe, and get wwwas pointing at www? Who has permission to do it? If only one person has the permissions to do this kind of thing, it would be nice to have at least 2 or 3 others get the necessary right to avoid these kinds of non-technical delays in the future. There is no reason why mmmaybe shouldn't have become www a couple of weeks ago.

As far as I know, Raphael has some kind of write access, since he is obviously able to update the site that is currently running at www.gimp.org.

However, Raphael says it is up to Yosh to make the move.

The domain name is registered by Shawn Amundson.

Currently, the domain name points to IP number 128.32.112.248, which is part of an address range assigned to the University of California (more commonly known as 'Berkeley').

On 5 Oct 2003, at 13:46, Sven Neumann wrote:

David Neary writes:

The web team says it's ready to move, several developers have said they want it to move now, I just wanted to sort out what exactly is preventing the website move.

What needs to be done to get www pointing at mmmaybe, and get wwwas pointing at www? Who has permission to do it? If only one person has the permissions to do this kind of thing, it would be nice to have at least 2 or 3 others get the necessary right to avoid these kinds of non-technical delays in the future. There is no reason why mmmaybe shouldn't have become www a couple of weeks ago.

If you would have read gimp-web list (where this topic should actually be discussed), you would know that there were good reasons for not doing the move immidiately.

I do read the gimp-web list, and I have no idea what you are talking about. The last blocker was resolved last Monday or the Monday before, IIRC.

I believe that most or evenall of these points have been addressed in the meantime but we should leave it up to the web team to decide when they want to move the site.

Could you please tell us which part of the web team has to say the word?

Note: I am adding a CC: to the gimp-web list and I suggest to continue the discussion there because this is slightly off-topic for the developers list.

On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:01:29 +0200, David Neary wrote:

Sven Neumann wrote:

David Neary writes:

The web team says it's ready to move, several developers have said they want it to move now, I just wanted to sort out what exactly is preventing the website move.

If you would have read gimp-web list (where this topic should actually be discussed), you would know that there were good reasons for not doing the move immidiately. I believe that most or evenall of these points have been addressed in the meantime but we should leave it up to the web team to decide when they want to move the site.

Yes, most of these points have been addressed in the meantime and the site has been ready since the 23rd of September. On that day, I posted a message to the gimp-web list summarizing the status of the web site, the recent changes, and saying that the site was ready for the move. Some additional issues were raised, and fixed on the same day. There have been almost no changes to the web site since then, because everybody in the web team is waiting for the site to move.

[...]

So as far as I can tell, the web team is waiting for the switch to happen. I am honestly interested in knowing why it hasn't.

Moving the web site will require more than a simple DNS switch: the machine hosting the old web site will be replaced by the new one. So moving the web site requires moving all user accounts from the old machine (wilber) to the new one. Wilber is also hosting most of the other *.gimp.org web sites (such as developer.gimp.org) and handles all gimp.org e-mail traffic. This migration will have to be done by someone who has root access for both machines and who can update all DNS entries, so this is out of the scope of the gimp-web team. As far as I know, the only ones who can do something about it are Yosh (Manish Singh) and Snorfle (Shawn T. Amundson).

Two weeks ago, Yosh sent an e-mail saying that he was too busy to move the site at that time, but he was hoping to do it soon. Last week, he sent me a message saying that he would try to do it during the weekend. It looks like he didn't have the time to do it. He is probably too busy with other things. Although the wait and the lack of updates are a bit frustrating, I cannot really blame him for that: as I am also doing the gimp stuff during my spare time, I understand that when you have little or no spare time, it is difficult to take care of the GIMP, the web site, etc. Sometimes, real life gets in the way of the fun stuff. :-( And if Yosh is the only one who can do something about it, I prefer to let him find enough time to do it right than to do half of the job in a hurry and then leave the web site or some accounts in a broken state that can only be fixed later when he finds more time.

-Raphaël

P.S.: Dave, you mentioned that you had problems subscribing to the gimp-web list. I remember having had some problems as well, but I eventually found a way to make it work. I don't remember exactly how but there are several ways (web or e-mail) to subscribe and to confirm the subscription and at least one of them works. Please try subscribing again, because any discussion about the web site should take place on the gimp-web list.

Hi,

Raphaël Quinet writes:

P.S.: Dave, you mentioned that you had problems subscribing to the gimp-web list. I remember having had some problems as well, but I eventually found a way to make it work. I don't remember exactly how but there are several ways (web or e-mail) to subscribe and to confirm the subscription and at least one of them works. Please try subscribing again, because any discussion about the web site should take place on the gimp-web list.

Problems subscribing to the gimp-user list were also reported today on the cinepaint-developers list. Someone should look into this since we really need these lists working. If you or someone else remembers how to work around the problem, please let us know.

Sven

On Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:43:28 +0200, "Branko Collin" wrote:

On 5 Oct 2003, at 13:46, Sven Neumann wrote:

David Neary writes:

[...] There is no reason why
mmmaybe shouldn't have become www a couple of weeks ago.

If you would have read gimp-web list (where this topic should actually be discussed), you would know that there were good reasons for not doing the move immidiately.

I do read the gimp-web list, and I have no idea what you are talking about. The last blocker was resolved last Monday or the Monday before, IIRC.

I suppose that Sven was refering to the comments made on the Thursday the 18th in bug #121299. Some of these comments and the related issues were relayed to the gimp-web list by scizzo in the thread with the subject "Moving of site proposal". Moving the web site on the 18th was not a good idea because there were still too many broken pages that could not be fixed immediately, so instead it was proposed to move it on Sunday 21th. This did not happen (Yosh said on the following Monday that he had been too busy) and a few additional improvements were done in the meantime, so the site was "officially" declared ready with the message "Status of the new web site" that I posted on Tuesday the 23rd.

I believe that most or evenall of these points have been addressed in the meantime but we should leave it up to the web team to decide when they want to move the site.

Could you please tell us which part of the web team has to say the word?

I don't think that there are any official rules for that (and I doubt that there should be any). However, if there is a consensus among the active members of the web team and/or if the web coordinator (yours truly) says that it is OK, then we can say that the decision has been taken. Both of them happened two weeks ago. So the "official" decision is that the web site should move as soon as possible.

There is no need to wait for any additional decisions. As far as I know, the last blocker is that Yosh should find some spare time for moving the site and all user accounts from the old machine to the new one. There are still some things that should be done with the new web site, such as updating the news on the home page or adding links to some files from the gimp and gimp-1-2 CVS modules (INSTALL, Wilber construction kit and others) but this will be much easier to do once the user accounts are moved so that I can set up the corresponding links and scripts on the new box.

-Raphaël

On 06 Oct 2003 18:44:08 +0200, Sven Neumann wrote:

Raphaël Quinet writes:

P.S.: Dave, you mentioned that you had problems subscribing to the gimp-web list. I remember having had some problems as well, but I eventually found a way to make it work. [...]

Problems subscribing to the gimp-user list were also reported today on the cinepaint-developers list. Someone should look into this since we really need these lists working. If you or someone else remembers how to work around the problem, please let us know.

Well, it looks like the mailing lists are completely broken now. When I tried last month, it was still possible to get around the mailman bug that was triggered during the confirmation step. But now the crash occurs during the first step of the subscription, so there is no way to avoid it. I just tried to subscribe a new address to the gimp-web and gimp-developer mailing lists and I immediately got the following error message:

---------- Bug in Mailman version 2.1b4

We're sorry, we hit a bug!

If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy of this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what happened. Thanks!

Traceback:

Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/lists/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main main()
File "/usr/lists/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py", line 94, in main process_form(mlist, doc, cgidata, language) File "/usr/lists/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py", line 176, in process_form mlist.AddMember(userdesc, remote) File "/usr/lists/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 807, in AddMember cookie = Pending.new(Pending.SUBSCRIPTION, userdesc) File "/usr/lists/mailman/Mailman/Pending.py", line 64, in new db = _load()
File "/usr/lists/mailman/Mailman/Pending.py", line 121, in _load return cPickle.load(fp)
TypeError: dict objects are unhashable ----------
[...more info snipped ...]

So after the archives, now it is the subscription mechanism that is broken. If I am not mistaken, nobody can subscribe to any of the gimp mailing lists (user, developer or web) until this problem is fixed.

-Raphaël

On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:31:45 +0200, David Neary wrote:

I eventually found a way to make it work. I don't remember exactly how but there are several ways (web or e-mail) to subscribe and to confirm the subscription and at least one of them works. Please try subscribing again, because any discussion about the web site should take place on the gimp-web list.

Raphael, how can one subscribe by mail? I'm only aware of the mailman web interface.

As I wrote at the same minute (but 24 seconds before your message ;-)), the problem that I observed a few weeks ago was only in the confirmation process, not in the first step of the subscription. But now the problem is even more severe: the first step is already broken, so it is not possible to subscribe to any of the GIMP mailing lists. :-(

-Raphaël

dneary@free.fr (2003-10-07 at 1131.45 +0200):

Raphael, how can one subscribe by mail? I'm only aware of the mailman web interface.

When it works and for example for gimp-developer list just send a mail to gimp-developer-request@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu with subject subscribe (replace list name and domain as necessary). It comes in the headers, but I guess most mailers hide them and do not offer a way to extract the info in a useful way (if you are not faking the user agent field try pressing h).

GSR