Hi,

Tom Mraz writes:

FYI (multiple keybindings per menu action in GTK+).

As I see it will be implemented in GTK+ 2.4 I vote for leaving the current redo keybinding as is and wait for GTK+ 2.4 with the change.

The new menu API in GTK+-2.4 will solve quite a few of our problems. I am really looking forward to have the GIMP HEAD branch depend on 2.4 after the GIMP-2.0 release is out. Then we can finally clean up this menu mess. The new GTK+ menu API really looks very promising.

Sven

Hi,

If this is an almost-concensus (only myself, Alan Horkan and Raphael seem to like the change), it seems reasonable to revert the redo shortcut to Ctrl-R.

Cheers, Dave.

Tom Mraz wrote:

FYI (multiple keybindings per menu action in GTK+).

As I see it will be implemented in GTK+ 2.4 I vote for leaving the current redo keybinding as is and wait for GTK+ 2.4 with the change.

Tom Mraz

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: [Bug 123647] Changed - Allow attaching additional (hidden) keybindings (accelerators) to menu entries

http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=123647

Changed by maclas@gmx.de.

--- shadow/123647 Wed Oct 1 13:49:47 2003 +++ shadow/123647.tmp.32485 Wed Oct 1 17:09:22 2003 @@ -1,13 +1,13 @@
Bug#: 123647
Product: gtk+
Version: 2.2.x
OS: Linux
OS Details:
-Status: NEW
-Resolution:
+Status: RESOLVED
+Resolution: FIXED
Severity: enhancement
Priority: Normal
Component: gtk
AssignedTo: gtk-bugs@gtk.org
ReportedBy: t8m@centrum.cz
TargetMilestone: ---
@@ -16,6 +16,10 @@

It should be possible to attach additional (hidden) keybindings (accelerators) to menu entries.

It would be a very useful functionality for backward (or another app) compatibility.
+
+------- Additional Comments From maclas@gmx.de 2003-10-01 17:09 ------- +This will be possible in 2.4 using elements with the new +GtkUIManager.

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On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 08:34:25 +0200, David Neary wrote:

If this is an almost-concensus (only myself, Alan Horkan and Raphael seem to like the change), it seems reasonable to revert the redo shortcut to Ctrl-R.

Please don't. If you replace the current Ctrl-Shift-Z by something else, try to replace it by something that is used by some other applications, such as Ctrl-Y. Do not bring back the old Ctrl-R.

By the way, I just noticed that the nice GTK+ mail reader that I am using (sylpheed) uses Ctrl-Y as a Redo shortcut. ;-)

-Raphaël

Raphaël Quinet (quinet@gamers.org) wrote:

On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 08:34:25 +0200, David Neary wrote:

If this is an almost-concensus (only myself, Alan Horkan and Raphael seem to like the change), it seems reasonable to revert the redo shortcut to Ctrl-R.

Please don't. If you replace the current Ctrl-Shift-Z by something else, try to replace it by something that is used by some other applications, such as Ctrl-Y. Do not bring back the old Ctrl-R.

Please do. There is an overwhelming precedence of the usage of CTRL-R for Undo. It has a large Userbase and is quite popular. It is The GIMP 1.2.

Bye,
Simon

On Thu, Oct 02, 2003 at 11:03:02AM +0200, Simon Budig wrote:

If this is an almost-concensus (only myself, Alan Horkan and Raphael seem to like the change), it seems reasonable to revert the redo shortcut to Ctrl-R.

Please don't. If you replace the current Ctrl-Shift-Z by something else, try to replace it by something that is used by some other applications, such as Ctrl-Y. Do not bring back the old Ctrl-R.

Please do. There is an overwhelming precedence of the usage of CTRL-R for Undo. It has a large Userbase and is quite popular. It is The GIMP 1.2.

I would not change the shortcut if it "will be changed with GTK 2.4" anyway. Just stick with CTRL-R. This way, we can later provide an alternative "more sane" extra shortcut using GTK 2.4.

Bye, Tino

Hi,

Raphaël Quinet writes:

On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 08:34:25 +0200, David Neary wrote:

If this is an almost-concensus (only myself, Alan Horkan and Raphael seem to like the change), it seems reasonable to revert the redo shortcut to Ctrl-R.

Please don't. If you replace the current Ctrl-Shift-Z by something else, try to replace it by something that is used by some other applications, such as Ctrl-Y. Do not bring back the old Ctrl-R.

Unless Ctrl-Y collides with another suggested shortcut in the HIG, it seems like a reasonable choice then. We should ask the HIG people to make this the suggested Redo shortcut. BTW, as Guillermo already pointed out, there are some more shortcuts, like for example the one for Duplicate, where the HIG differs from our defaults. We should consider to change these.

Sven

Hi,

tino.schwarze@informatik.tu-chemnitz.de (Tino Schwarze) writes:

I would not change the shortcut if it "will be changed with GTK 2.4" anyway. Just stick with CTRL-R. This way, we can later provide an alternative "more sane" extra shortcut using GTK 2.4.

I don't think we ever want a second shortcut for anything. We should settle on a good default now. Since the HIG people seem willing to change their mind on Shift-Ctrl-Z because of the obvious ergonomic problems of this keybinding, we can decide now if we want Ctrl-R or Ctrl-Y.

Sven

Hi,

Sven Neumann wrote:

Raphaël Quinet writes:

try to replace it by something that is used by some other applications, such as Ctrl-Y. Do not bring back the old Ctrl-R.

Unless Ctrl-Y collides with another suggested shortcut in the HIG, it seems like a reasonable choice then. We should ask the HIG people to make this the suggested Redo shortcut.

Agreed.

BTW, as Guillermo already
pointed out, there are some more shortcuts, like for example the one for Duplicate, where the HIG differs from our defaults. We should consider to change these.

Also agreed :) Does anyone have a complete list of these other clashing shortcuts, or does someone need to draw it up?

Cheers, Dave.

Will you excuse me...but ..what CTRL-Y has to with REDO alltogether?

CTRL + R -> R is the first letter in REDO. SHIFT + CTRl + Z -> Shift acts as amodifier to the CTRL + Z UNDO. CTRl + X -> Stays next to "Z" and allows for fat toggling as has been argued.

But...
CTRL-Y? Why not just stick with CTRL+R? Maybe to pick the worst of both worlds? (Non standard shortcut + non mnemonic + change from GIMP 1.2 + Have to use both hands to press)
Please....

CTRL+R for REDO, and for California Gov.!

Sven Neumann wrote:

Hi,

Raphaël Quinet writes:

On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 08:34:25 +0200, David Neary wrote:

If this is an almost-concensus (only myself, Alan Horkan and Raphael seem to like the change), it seems reasonable to revert the redo shortcut to Ctrl-R.

Please don't. If you replace the current Ctrl-Shift-Z by something else, try to replace it by something that is used by some other applications, such as Ctrl-Y. Do not bring back the old Ctrl-R.

Unless Ctrl-Y collides with another suggested shortcut in the HIG, it seems like a reasonable choice then. We should ask the HIG people to make this the suggested Redo shortcut. BTW, as Guillermo already pointed out, there are some more shortcuts, like for example the one for Duplicate, where the HIG differs from our defaults. We should consider to change these.

Sven

On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 09:19:11 -0300, "Joao S. O. Bueno" wrote:

Will you excuse me...but ..what CTRL-Y has to with REDO alltogether?

For better or worse, Ctrl-Y is the most frequently used shortcut for Redo.

CTRL-Y? Why not just stick with CTRL+R? Maybe to pick the worst of both worlds? (Non standard shortcut + non mnemonic + change from GIMP 1.2 + Have to use both hands to press)

Ctrl-Y is the shortcut used by most Windows applications (except for Photoshop and Paint Shop Pro, using Ctrl-Shift-Z and Ctrl-Alt-Z) so it is likely that most users will already be know it. If we consider the applications for Linux or UNIX-like systems, then we find Mozilla that is also using Ctrl-Y. I discovered several others in the meantime, such as the mail client that I am using right now (sylpheed).

As I have argued earlier, we should try to promote consistency with other applications whenever possible, because the majority of GIMP users are not using the GIMP frequently and it will be easier for them to remember shortcuts (or any other way to perform a given task) if they can re-use their knowledge from other applications. This is more important than trying to keep the same shortcuts as in previous versions of the GIMP, especially because the experienced users like you and me can rebind them easily.

-Raphaël

Hi,

Raphaël Quinet writes:

Ctrl-Y is the shortcut used by most Windows applications (except for Photoshop and Paint Shop Pro, using Ctrl-Shift-Z and Ctrl-Alt-Z)

As far as I understood, Photoshop uses Ctrl-Z for redo. Actually a redo in PS is just an undo of the previous undo step. Ctrl-Shift-Z gives access to earlier Undo steps but it's not actually a Redo action.

Sven