Hi,

Alan Horkan writes:

Go to the menu and toggle "View Menubar". How did you miss this?

(Gimp 1.3.4) I had the menubar turned on I expected to still have the menubar in fullscreen mode.

I don't understand your answer but just to clarify my sentence I will describe the behaviour of fullscreen mode for you. By default, if you enter fullscreen mode and your WM signals that it supports this operation, all widgets around the canvas are switched off. You can however access the Image->View menu using the right-click menu. There you can reenable individual elements like menu-bar, rulers, status-bar and the like. These changes do not affect the state of the view in normal mode and this state is saved and will be used again when you switch to fullscreen mode again later. I hope this clarifies things.

Sven

Hi,

Alan Horkan writes:

Should I file a request in bugzilla, asking for a "Fullscreen with Menu" option or do you think it would not be worth adding?

I think it is not worth to clutter the menu with this since the menu is always available as right-click menu anyway. The menubar has no additional value.

Sven

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003, Alan Horkan wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003, Sven Neumann wrote:

Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:57:18 +0200 From: Sven Neumann
To: Alan Horkan
Cc: gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu Subject: Re: Menubar in fullscreen mode [Re: [Gimp-developer] the user installer]

Hi,

Alan Horkan writes:

Go to the menu and toggle "View Menubar". How did you miss this?

(Gimp 1.3.4) I had the menubar turned on I expected to still have the menubar in fullscreen mode.

I don't understand your answer but just to clarify my sentence I will describe the behaviour of fullscreen mode for you. By default, if you

I expected the menubar to stay on in fullscreen mode. I just wanted to point out that my expectations were different from what happened, which I realise is unneccessary information from your point of view. (I only have a recent build at home so it takes me a while to check these things).

This actually could be a serious usablity issue, since a user who has the menubar on (which a distro might set as default) after going to fullscreen mode might not be able to figure out how to get the menubar back, or even how to return to windowed mode.

(bah, watching actual real users in usablity tests at work stumble around when using really fairly simple interfaces has caused me to loose all faith in the intelligence of humanity. Then again, our users are actual real users, too.)

Seriously, though, it would be a much better behavior to keep the menubar when the window is made fullscreen. A user that prefers a menubar will probably prefer one in fullscreen mode also. Besides, a user with a clue will be able to turn off the menubar anyway.

Rockwalrus

Nathan Carl Summers wrote:

(bah, watching actual real users in usablity tests at work stumble around when using really fairly simple interfaces has caused me to loose all faith in the intelligence of humanity. Then again, our users are actual real users, too.)

Yes, quite so. :( Seeing such studies pretty much turned around my ideas on UIs.

Hi,

Nathan Carl Summers writes:

This actually could be a serious usablity issue, since a user who has the menubar on (which a distro might set as default) after going to fullscreen mode might not be able to figure out how to get the menubar back, or even how to return to windowed mode.

Pressing F11 again or hitting ESC will get you out of full-screen mode again.

Seriously, though, it would be a much better behavior to keep the menubar when the window is made fullscreen. A user that prefers a menubar will probably prefer one in fullscreen mode also. Besides, a user with a clue will be able to turn off the menubar anyway.

Fullscreen mode was added to be able to view the image in a neutral environment w/o being distracted by any user interface elements. Adding a menubar would completely ruin this effort.

The fact that you can edit the image in full-screen mode and that we even decided to allow you to tweak what gets hidden and what not is just an additional nicety and I'm actually tempted to remove it.

Sven

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003, Sven Neumann wrote:

Hi,

Nathan Carl Summers writes:

Fullscreen mode was added to be able to view the image in a neutral environment w/o being distracted by any user interface elements. Adding a menubar would completely ruin this effort.

I'm sure any UI expert you talk to (or really, anyone who thinks about it for twelve seconds) will tell you that putting up a fullscreen image without any obvious method of exiting is likely to inspire panic in the user, who doesn't know how to get out.

The fact that you can edit the image in full-screen mode and that we even decided to allow you to tweak what gets hidden and what not is just an additional nicety and I'm actually tempted to remove it.

Don't! Fullscreen mode is useful for more than that. It is nice when working on a large image, or a smaller image with high magnification, to get rid of superfluous stuff like the window decoration, but in that case the user may still want to use of the stuff that would otherwise be hidden.

Rockwalrus

On Wed, Jul 16, 2003 at 03:39:25PM +0200, Sven Neumann wrote:

Should I file a request in bugzilla, asking for a "Fullscreen with Menu" option or do you think it would not be worth adding?

I think it is not worth to clutter the menu with this since the menu is always available as right-click menu anyway. The menubar has no additional value.

That (no additional value) must be the reason why it's enabled by default :)

On Wed, 2003-07-16 at 18:28, Nathan Carl Summers wrote:

Don't! Fullscreen mode is useful for more than that. It is nice when working on a large image, or a smaller image with high magnification, to get rid of superfluous stuff like the window decoration, but in that case the user may still want to use of the stuff that would otherwise be hidden.

I find this a lot more useful as well, probably because that's what the fullscreen mode was for in Photoshop. A preview is nice as well, but fullscreen editing is quite a kick-ass feature.

jimmac@ximian.com (2003-07-16 at 2244.11 +0200):

Don't! Fullscreen mode is useful for more than that. It is nice when working on a large image, or a smaller image with high magnification, to get rid of superfluous stuff like the window decoration, but in that case the user may still want to use of the stuff that would otherwise be hidden.

I find this a lot more useful as well, probably because that's what the fullscreen mode was for in Photoshop. A preview is nice as well, but fullscreen editing is quite a kick-ass feature.

I always wondered why then the app has to do it, instead of the wm providing a trully full screen mode (no decors). I thought special full screens where due something different, like viewing video without any widget. :-/

GSR

Marc A. Lehmann wrote:

On Wed, Jul 16, 2003 at 03:39:25PM +0200, Sven Neumann wrote:

I think it is not worth to clutter the menu with this since the menu is always available as right-click menu anyway. The menubar has no additional value.

That (no additional value) must be the reason why it's enabled by default :)

No - it's enabled by default because I thought it should be. I'm quite sure that Sven has turned it off :)

Cheers, Dave.

Hi,

David Neary writes:

No - it's enabled by default because I thought it should be. I'm quite sure that Sven has turned it off :)

I have it turned on so I get reminded how akward it is all the time I use The GIMP. Actually I tried to get used to it but I still can't stand it. I will however leave it turned on so that I am forced to continue to think about how to improve it (and we have some ideas already... ).

Sven

Hi,

thanks to Mitch the behaviour of full-screen mode is now fully configurable. The change to implement this was probably a lot smaller than most of the comments on this subject that appeared on this list...

Sven