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Participation at Apple Developer Program

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Participation at Apple Developer Program alexandre.prokoudine@gmail.com 25 Mar 22:45
  Participation at Apple Developer Program Pat David 26 Mar 12:33
  Participation at Apple Developer Program Mario Sottile - Marionetas Mey 26 Mar 13:01
   Participation at Apple Developer Program Alexandre Prokoudine 26 Mar 13:05
  Participation at Apple Developer Program Elle Stone 26 Mar 13:09
  Participation at Apple Developer Program Michael Natterer 26 Mar 14:39
   Participation at Apple Developer Program Alexandre Prokoudine 26 Mar 14:47
    Participation at Apple Developer Program Pat David 26 Mar 15:03
  Participation at Apple Developer Program Ofnuts 26 Mar 16:08
   Participation at Apple Developer Program Joao S. O. Bueno 26 Mar 16:42
   Participation at Apple Developer Program Jehan Pagès 27 Mar 01:25
    Participation at Apple Developer Program Kristian Rietveld 27 Mar 07:21
     Participation at Apple Developer Program Robert Krawitz 27 Mar 11:57
     Participation at Apple Developer Program Jehan Pagès 27 Mar 20:53
      Participation at Apple Developer Program C R 28 Mar 09:38
  Participation at Apple Developer Program Simon Budig 27 Mar 10:33
  Participation at Apple Developer Program Alexandre Prokoudine 14 Jun 09:18
alexandre.prokoudine@gmail.com
2018-03-25 22:45:42 UTC (7 months ago)

Participation at Apple Developer Program

I've invited you to fill out the following form: Participation at Apple Developer Program

To fill it out, visit: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdRepYcE1dLD0342FaVGenU0Nr519SyK-MYzdGylmNXYq5rUQ/viewform?c=0&w=1&usp=mail_form_link

Hi.

We'd like to know opinions of all developers and contributors of GIMP, but not everyone is on IRC. Please vote :)

P.S. Collecting emails in this form is disabled. It's safe to vote.

Alex

Google Forms: Create and analyze surveys.

Pat David
2018-03-26 12:33:33 UTC (7 months ago)

Participation at Apple Developer Program

I’ve voted (Yes if anyone is interested). :) On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 5:45 PM wrote:

I've invited you to fill out the following form: Participation at Apple Developer Program

To fill it out, visit:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdRepYcE1dLD0342FaVGenU0Nr519SyK-MYzdGylmNXYq5rUQ/viewform?c=0&w=1&usp=mail_form_link

Hi.

We'd like to know opinions of all developers and contributors of GIMP, but not everyone is on IRC. Please vote :)

P.S. Collecting emails in this form is disabled. It's safe to vote.

Alex

Google Forms: Create and analyze surveys. _______________________________________________ gimp-developer-list mailing list
List address: gimp-developer-list@gnome.org List membership:
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list

https://patdavid.net
GPG: 66D1 7CA6 8088 4874 946D  18BD 67C7 6219 89E9 57AC
Mario Sottile - Marionetas Mey
2018-03-26 13:01:00 UTC (7 months ago)

Participation at Apple Developer Program

In life, to be inclusive, it's necessary and important to speak every language. Money is the language of Apple :-\...

I voted "yes".

Mario Mey (linux-user & /apple-refuser/ ;-))

Marionetas Mey

Mario Sottile - Director (011) 15.6283.1576
www.mariomey.com.ar
info@mariomey.com.ar

El 25/03/18 a las 19:45, alexandre.prokoudine@gmail.com escribió:

I've invited you to fill out the following form: Participation at Apple Developer Program

To fill it out, visit: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdRepYcE1dLD0342FaVGenU0Nr519SyK-MYzdGylmNXYq5rUQ/viewform?c=0&w=1&usp=mail_form_link

Hi.

We'd like to know opinions of all developers and contributors of GIMP, but not everyone is on IRC. Please vote :)

P.S. Collecting emails in this form is disabled. It's safe to vote.

Alex

Google Forms: Create and analyze surveys. _______________________________________________ gimp-developer-list mailing list
List address:    gimp-developer-list@gnome.org List membership:
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list

Alexandre Prokoudine
2018-03-26 13:05:32 UTC (7 months ago)

Participation at Apple Developer Program

On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 4:01 PM, Mario Sottile - Marionetas Mey wrote:

In life, to be inclusive, it's necessary and important to speak every language. Money is the language of Apple :-\...

I voted "yes".

Um, I specifically mentioned that voting is developers/contributors only. What am I missing? :)

Alex

Elle Stone
2018-03-26 13:09:27 UTC (7 months ago)

Participation at Apple Developer Program

On 03/25/2018 06:45 PM, alexandre.prokoudine@gmail.com wrote:

I've invited you to fill out the following form: Participation at Apple Developer Program

To fill it out, visit: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdRepYcE1dLD0342FaVGenU0Nr519SyK-MYzdGylmNXYq5rUQ/viewform?c=0&w=1&usp=mail_form_link

Hi.

We'd like to know opinions of all developers and contributors of GIMP, but not everyone is on IRC. Please vote :

It might help people make a more informed vote if they knew of some of the involved issues. See these two bug reports:

Regarding Apple:

https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=769684

A similar request to give money to the vendors of a proprietary OS to make things easier for the users, this time to Windows:

https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=793522

Best, Elle

Michael Natterer
2018-03-26 14:39:05 UTC (7 months ago)

Participation at Apple Developer Program

I admire how objectively neutral the first two choices are worded :P

Still against paying money for being allowed to distribute free software, but poll ahead, and do whatever :)

--Mitch

On Sun, 2018-03-25 at 22:45 +0000, alexandre.prokoudine@gmail.com wrote:

I've invited you to fill out the following form: Participation at Apple Developer Program

To fill it out, visit: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdRepYcE1dLD0342FaVGenU0Nr51 9SyK-MYzdGylmNXYq5rUQ/viewform?c=0&w=1&usp=mail_form_link

Hi.

We'd like to know opinions of all developers and contributors of GIMP,
but not everyone is on IRC. Please vote :)

P.S. Collecting emails in this form is disabled. It's safe to vote.

Alex

Google Forms: Create and analyze surveys. _______________________________________________ gimp-developer-list mailing list
List address: gimp-developer-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-develop er-list
List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list

Alexandre Prokoudine
2018-03-26 14:47:06 UTC (7 months ago)

Participation at Apple Developer Program

On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 5:39 PM, Michael Natterer wrote:

I admire how objectively neutral the first two choices are worded :P

Yeah, I'm rather annoyed, because the money equivalent of the overall human time spent on this issue already surpasess $99 a year. Also, because of some of the comments I've heard on IRC about this. In the fullness of time, I will either quit providing tech support to macOS users or just pay for the program out of my pocket.

Alex

Pat David
2018-03-26 15:03:25 UTC (7 months ago)

Participation at Apple Developer Program

To be clear, my decision was only based on the (possibly optimistic) goal of easing the ability for macos users to install, with the hope of extending awareness and reach of the broader goals of Free Software. I think the price is small for what I hope will be greater awareness and exposure.

On the other hand, I completely understand the principal of not paying to distribute Free Software. I support the reasons as well, but am trying to view this from a cost/benefit standpoint.

I have no problem at all refusing to pay, just understanding that the caveat is a larger number of users asking how to install on macos with gatekeeper (at least the ones we hear about that don't just stop and quit based on Apples idiotic move here).

$99 to hopefully make Free Software more visible to a larger audience that might otherwise not even learn of it. We could also write a post on wgo about the reasons for not wanting to do this, and why we did (if we do). That way we can be clear that it was not a decision taken lightly. (and conversely, a post about refusing to pay to play).

pat

On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 9:47 AM Alexandre Prokoudine < alexandre.prokoudine@gmail.com> wrote:

On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 5:39 PM, Michael Natterer wrote:

I admire how objectively neutral the first two choices are worded :P

Yeah, I'm rather annoyed, because the money equivalent of the overall human time spent on this issue already surpasess $99 a year. Also, because of some of the comments I've heard on IRC about this. In the fullness of time, I will either quit providing tech support to macOS users or just pay for the program out of my pocket.

Alex _______________________________________________ gimp-developer-list mailing list
List address: gimp-developer-list@gnome.org List membership:
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list

https://patdavid.net
GPG: 66D1 7CA6 8088 4874 946D  18BD 67C7 6219 89E9 57AC
Ofnuts
2018-03-26 16:08:26 UTC (7 months ago)

Participation at Apple Developer Program

On 03/26/18 00:45, alexandre.prokoudine@gmail.com wrote:

I've invited you to fill out the following form: Participation at Apple Developer Program

To fill it out, visit: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdRepYcE1dLD0342FaVGenU0Nr519SyK-MYzdGylmNXYq5rUQ/viewform?c=0&w=1&usp=mail_form_link

Hi.

We'd like to know opinions of all developers and contributors of GIMP, but not everyone is on IRC. Please vote :)

P.S. Collecting emails in this form is disabled. It's safe to vote.

Alex

Did we try to get in touch with Apple developer relations and see if they would give us a rebate or even complete waive the fee? That would be good PR for them...

Joao S. O. Bueno
2018-03-26 16:42:50 UTC (7 months ago)

Participation at Apple Developer Program

I voted yes -

But I also think we could ask Apple for a direct sponsorship for the project (obviously, not limited to this amount - maybe 100 times as much is a reasonable value,
given the value made available gratis for all Mac OS users.)

Do we create another pool on that? Or can we figure out someone to volunteer and contact them?

On 26 March 2018 at 13:08, Ofnuts wrote:

On 03/26/18 00:45, alexandre.prokoudine@gmail.com wrote:

I've invited you to fill out the following form: Participation at Apple Developer Program

To fill it out, visit:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdRepYcE1dLD0342FaVGenU0Nr519SyK-MYzdGylmNXYq5rUQ/viewform?c=0&w=1&usp=mail_form_link

Hi.

We'd like to know opinions of all developers and contributors of GIMP, but not everyone is on IRC. Please vote :)

P.S. Collecting emails in this form is disabled. It's safe to vote.

Alex

Did we try to get in touch with Apple developer relations and see if they would give us a rebate or even complete waive the fee? That would be good PR for them...

_______________________________________________ gimp-developer-list mailing list
List address: gimp-developer-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list

Jehan Pagès
2018-03-27 01:25:18 UTC (7 months ago)

Participation at Apple Developer Program

Hi!

On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 6:08 PM, Ofnuts wrote:

On 03/26/18 00:45, alexandre.prokoudine@gmail.com wrote:

I've invited you to fill out the following form: Participation at Apple Developer Program

To fill it out, visit: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdRepYcE1dLD0342FaV GenU0Nr519SyK-MYzdGylmNXYq5rUQ/viewform?c=0& amp;w=1&usp=mail_form_link

Hi.

We'd like to know opinions of all developers and contributors of GIMP, but not everyone is on IRC. Please vote :)

P.S. Collecting emails in this form is disabled. It's safe to vote.

Alex

Did we try to get in touch with Apple developer relations and see if they would give us a rebate or even complete waive the fee? That would be good PR for them...

For the record, I did try to get in touch with Apple some time ago (may have been a year ago, or more, or less, I don't remember), and I didn't get any answer.
Or maybe I had an answer to a first email who told me to send an email to another address, but I didn't get an answer from this second contact. Or something like that, I can't remember exactly.

Bottom line: they don't care, and they didn't answer.

I feel that anyone who believes that Apple would even care about us is misled. What are we compared to Apple? Nothing. Seriously what is the PR for them here?
Now I'm happy to be wrong. Maybe I wrote to the wrong contacts (I don't know anyone from the "inside", and simply tried to get through the official contact media). Maybe they would sponsor. Maybe they would even donate more as João believes possible. I don't believe so, but I may just be pessimistic.

As for answering, I think I will just vote "I don't care".

But really for me, this is hiding the real issue: we have barely no macOS developers. We have mostly a single dev caring for macOS, but his time is very limited (which is not a problem, everyone has one's priority and he does already a lot). For instance, 10 days ago, I made some changes to macOS code, hoping for a macOS developer or one of third party packagers to test the change. Nothing happened until today, just before the release (as expected, things needed to be fixed). So it looks a bit funny to me to be discussing how to better package for an OS when we have nearly none to improve things for this said OS.

What I would love is for people who wants GIMP on macOS to actually *care* for their OS (not "care" by *saying* "I care" but by actual action, i.e. the real meaning of "caring"). If we had a few developers fixing regularly GIMP for macOS, improving things, etc. then these people would want to get a proper signed package for this platform, I'd be happy for us to have an official account, even if I completely agree with Mitch that it is really garbage that we have to pay for real good and clean Free Software; this is shameful from this company. Yet if we have actual people giving of their time, and really showing their care, I'd still say It would make sense.

But right now, we are discussing paying to distribute a version of GIMP which is barely kept alive. This is a bit doing things in the wrong order IMO.

Jehan

P.S.: most of what I said can be said for the Windows build too. Well actually we seem to have slightly more love for this build, yet barely. Only GIMP on GNU/Linux (and *BSD seems to have people watching closely too) is actually very well maintained with a huge flow of fixes and improvements.

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Kristian Rietveld
2018-03-27 07:21:31 UTC (7 months ago)

Participation at Apple Developer Program

On 27 Mar 2018, at 03:25, Jehan Pagès wrote:

But right now, we are discussing paying to distribute a version of GIMP which is barely kept alive. This is a bit doing things in the wrong order IMO.

In fact, I think this is the main point. Even in the case we do decide to pay for an account, we need to incorporate this into our build system. And I consider it more important to first get regular 2.10 builds off the ground than to produce signed binaries.

[I am near having a script that completely automates the build and DMG creation. I wanted to have 2.10 DMGs available already, but unfortunately due to some family related events early this year I had to stall his work for a while. It is my intention to pick it up again now].

I voted “I don’t care”, because manually enabling the binary is in my opinion a minor nuisance to some of the other issues that need fixing. Also I don’t need this feature myself, but if the community wants to see this fixed I can look into it.

regards,

-kris.

Simon Budig
2018-03-27 10:33:32 UTC (7 months ago)

Participation at Apple Developer Program

alexandre.prokoudine@gmail.com (alexandre.prokoudine@gmail.com) wrote:

We'd like to know opinions of all developers and contributors of GIMP, but not everyone is on IRC. Please vote :)

I voted "I don't care".

Bye, Simon

simon@budig.de              http://simon.budig.de/
Robert Krawitz
2018-03-27 11:57:24 UTC (7 months ago)

Participation at Apple Developer Program

On Tue, 27 Mar 2018 09:21:31 +0200, Kristian Rietveld wrote:

On 27 Mar 2018, at 03:25, Jehan Pagès wrote:

But right now, we are discussing paying to distribute a version of GIMP which is barely kept alive. This is a bit doing things in the wrong order IMO.

In fact, I think this is the main point. Even in the case we do decide to pay for an account, we need to incorporate this into our build system. And I consider it more important to first get regular 2.10 builds off the ground than to produce signed binaries.

[I am near having a script that completely automates the build and DMG creation. I wanted to have 2.10 DMGs available already, but unfortunately due to some family related events early this year I had to stall his work for a while. It is my intention to pick it up again now].

I voted “I don’t care”, because manually enabling the binary is in my opinion a minor nuisance to some of the other issues that need fixing. Also I don’t need this feature myself, but if the community wants to see this fixed I can look into it.

Just a note about this -- in the Mac world, signed binaries are perceived to be a security issue. We (Gutenprint) had always planned to sign our binaries after this came out, but it took us some time to get the details right even with an experienced Mac person on the team and we got a lot of complaints from our Mac users until we got it all set up.

Robert Krawitz                                     

***  MIT Engineers   A Proud Tradition   http://mitathletics.com  ***
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"Linux doesn't dictate how I work, I dictate how Linux works."
--Eric Crampton
Jehan Pagès
2018-03-27 20:53:13 UTC (7 months ago)

Participation at Apple Developer Program

Hi!

On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 9:21 AM, Kristian Rietveld wrote:

On 27 Mar 2018, at 03:25, Jehan Pagès

wrote:

But right now, we are discussing paying to distribute a version of GIMP which is barely kept alive. This is a bit doing things in the wrong order IMO.

In fact, I think this is the main point. Even in the case we do decide to pay for an account, we need to incorporate this into our build system. And I consider it more important to first get regular 2.10 builds off the ground than to produce signed binaries.

[I am near having a script that completely automates the build and DMG creation. I wanted to have 2.10 DMGs available already, but unfortunately due to some family related events early this year I had to stall his work for a while. It is my intention to pick it up again now].

I just wanted to add that Kris is the person who makes things happen in GIMP for macOS. As far as I am concerned, as said earlier, he is therefore the one who should call the shots regarding such macOS build questions, rather than a vote (unless he wants to decide through a vote himself) because in the end, he is the one who has to make the grunt work here (as a volunteer, I remind).

Jehan

I voted “I don’t care”, because manually enabling the binary is in my opinion a minor nuisance to some of the other issues that need fixing. Also I don’t need this feature myself, but if the community wants to see this fixed I can look into it.

regards,

-kris.

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C R
2018-03-28 09:38:36 UTC (7 months ago)

Participation at Apple Developer Program

I just wanted to add that Kris is the person who makes things happen in GIMP for macOS. As far as I am concerned, as said earlier, he is therefore the one who should call the shots regarding such macOS build questions, rather than a vote (unless he wants to decide through a vote himself) because in the end, he is the one who has to make the grunt work here (as a volunteer, I remind).

+1

Alexandre Prokoudine
2018-06-14 09:18:56 UTC (4 months ago)

Participation at Apple Developer Program

On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 1:45 AM, wrote:

I've invited you to fill out the following form: Participation at Apple Developer Program

To fill it out, visit: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdRepYcE1dLD0342FaVGenU0Nr519SyK-MYzdGylmNXYq5rUQ/viewform?c=0&w=1&usp=mail_form_link

Hi.

We'd like to know opinions of all developers and contributors of GIMP, but not everyone is on IRC. Please vote :)

P.S. Collecting emails in this form is disabled. It's safe to vote.

Alex

Jehan reminded me of this, so I looked up the results:

https://imgur.com/a/R5euq4F

I find this so terribly irresponsible that I will donate the annual membership to whoever is our next official macOS packager.

Alex