RSS/Atom feed Twitter
Site is read-only, email is disabled

Transformation obeying layer blending?

This discussion is connected to the gimp-developer-list.gnome.org mailing list which is provided by the GIMP developers and not related to gimpusers.com.

This is a read-only list on gimpusers.com so this discussion thread is read-only, too.

11 of 11 messages available
Toggle history

Please log in to manage your subscriptions.

Transformation obeying layer blending? Tobiasz Karoń 02 Mar 11:06
  Transformation obeying layer blending? Peter O'Regan 04 Mar 16:26
   Transformation obeying layer blending? C R 04 Mar 17:51
    Transformation obeying layer blending? Tobiasz Karoń 05 Mar 11:17
     Transformation obeying layer blending? C R 05 Mar 13:57
  Transformation obeying layer blending? Øyvind Kolås 06 Mar 08:36
   Transformation obeying layer blending? C R 06 Mar 09:14
    Transformation obeying layer blending? Øyvind Kolås 06 Mar 09:48
     Transformation obeying layer blending? C R 06 Mar 09:53
      Transformation obeying layer blending? Øyvind Kolås 06 Mar 10:52
       Transformation obeying layer blending? C R 06 Mar 12:25
Tobiasz Karoń
2017-03-02 11:06:18 UTC (about 7 years ago)

Transformation obeying layer blending?

Hi!

When doing transformations (scale, rotation, perspective transform) the transformed layer "pops out" and transformed part of the image is fully opaque and drawn on top of everything else together with the transfomation gizmo/controls/grid.

Sometimes I'd like to be able to make this semi-transparent to be able to align one layer to another, laying underneath it.

Sometimes I use the "Difference" blending type to compare two layers and align stuff precisely. For translation I can use the arrow keys and the blending works, but for perspective transform, scaling or rotation - I can't use my layer's blending while manipulating the transfomation, and that'd be super useful at times.

What do you think?

- Tobiasz 'unfa' Karoń

http://soundcloud.com/unfa
Peter O'Regan
2017-03-04 16:26:48 UTC (about 7 years ago)

Transformation obeying layer blending?

I see what you describe in 2.8 and I agree it would be useful. And fortunately, the development 2.9 build contains an opacity control in the transformation tools to do just that! =)

Peter

On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 6:06 AM, Tobiasz Karoń wrote:

Hi!

When doing transformations (scale, rotation, perspective transform) the transformed layer "pops out" and transformed part of the image is fully opaque and drawn on top of everything else together with the transfomation gizmo/controls/grid.

Sometimes I'd like to be able to make this semi-transparent to be able to align one layer to another, laying underneath it.

Sometimes I use the "Difference" blending type to compare two layers and align stuff precisely. For translation I can use the arrow keys and the blending works, but for perspective transform, scaling or rotation - I can't use my layer's blending while manipulating the transfomation, and that'd be super useful at times.

What do you think?

-- - Tobiasz 'unfa' Karoń

http://soundcloud.com/unfa _______________________________________________ gimp-developer-list mailing list
List address: gimp-developer-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp- developer-list
List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list

C R
2017-03-04 17:51:51 UTC (about 7 years ago)

Transformation obeying layer blending?

The bad news is that opaque is still the default, so you have to take time to adjust the opacity mode each and every time you restart GIMP.

Thus, if you want to transform the layer in relation to what's under it, you have to follow these steps:

1.Start the transform (scale, rotate, unified transform, etc.) 2.Hide the current layer.
3.Adjust the opacity of the transformation preview in the transform tool options.
4.Set grid to zero lines
5.complete transformation
6.Un-hide layer to see the results.

Additionally, you have to do this for each tool you want to use for transforming at least once per gimp session.

This is a lot of work, when all you want to do is see what's under your transformation while transforming.

The steps could be reduced dramatically by changing some of gimps defaults:

1.Start the transformation (GIMP automatically sets transforming layer display to hidden. This is necessary to see the result of your transformation in can see relation to what's below it. GIMP could also set the transform visibility to 75% opacity by default, giving an even better view of what the transformation is covering up. GIMP should hide grid lines by default during transformation unless the user asks for them. They have only ever really gotten in the way, and I have yet to find any good use for them.)
2.Complete the transformation (GIMP unhides the layer, thus showing the transformation in its complete state at full opacity)

So as you can see, this would cut down the work the user has to do a lot when transforming. It would also bring GIMP's transforming into the same ease of use as every other graphics program I've ever used professionally. :) After having lived with it like this every working day for the last 6 years, I have to say, it's still one of my biggest gripes about GIMP's GUI. Can we fix it? Please? Pretty pretty please? :)

-C

On Sat, Mar 4, 2017 at 4:26 PM, Peter O'Regan wrote:

I see what you describe in 2.8 and I agree it would be useful. And fortunately, the development 2.9 build contains an opacity control in the transformation tools to do just that! =)

Peter

On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 6:06 AM, Tobiasz Karoń wrote:

Hi!

When doing transformations (scale, rotation, perspective transform) the transformed layer "pops out" and transformed part of the image is fully opaque and drawn on top of everything else together with the transfomation gizmo/controls/grid.

Sometimes I'd like to be able to make this semi-transparent to be able to align one layer to another, laying underneath it.

Sometimes I use the "Difference" blending type to compare two layers and align stuff precisely. For translation I can use the arrow keys and the blending works, but for perspective transform, scaling or rotation - I can't use my layer's blending while manipulating the transfomation, and that'd be super useful at times.

What do you think?

-- - Tobiasz 'unfa' Karoń

http://soundcloud.com/unfa _______________________________________________ gimp-developer-list mailing list
List address: gimp-developer-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp- developer-list
List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list

_______________________________________________ gimp-developer-list mailing list
List address: gimp-developer-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list

Tobiasz Karoń
2017-03-05 11:17:22 UTC (about 7 years ago)

Transformation obeying layer blending?

What you proposed sounds very sensible to me. It would help a lot of situations, and I don't see any which it would harm.

4 mar 2017 6:51 PM "C R" napisał(a):

The bad news is that opaque is still the default, so you have to take time to adjust the opacity mode each and every time you restart GIMP.

Thus, if you want to transform the layer in relation to what's under it, you have to follow these steps:

1.Start the transform (scale, rotate, unified transform, etc.) 2.Hide the current layer.
3.Adjust the opacity of the transformation preview in the transform tool options.
4.Set grid to zero lines
5.complete transformation
6.Un-hide layer to see the results.

Additionally, you have to do this for each tool you want to use for transforming at least once per gimp session.

This is a lot of work, when all you want to do is see what's under your transformation while transforming.

The steps could be reduced dramatically by changing some of gimps defaults:

1.Start the transformation (GIMP automatically sets transforming layer display to hidden. This is necessary to see the result of your transformation in can see relation to what's below it. GIMP could also set the transform visibility to 75% opacity by default, giving an even better view of what the transformation is covering up. GIMP should hide grid lines by default during transformation unless the user asks for them. They have only ever really gotten in the way, and I have yet to find any good use for them.)
2.Complete the transformation (GIMP unhides the layer, thus showing the transformation in its complete state at full opacity)

So as you can see, this would cut down the work the user has to do a lot when transforming. It would also bring GIMP's transforming into the same ease of use as every other graphics program I've ever used professionally. :) After having lived with it like this every working day for the last 6 years, I have to say, it's still one of my biggest gripes about GIMP's GUI. Can we fix it? Please? Pretty pretty please? :)

-C

On Sat, Mar 4, 2017 at 4:26 PM, Peter O'Regan wrote:

I see what you describe in 2.8 and I agree it would be useful. And fortunately, the development 2.9 build contains an opacity control in the transformation tools to do just that! =)

Peter

On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 6:06 AM, Tobiasz Karoń wrote:

Hi!

When doing transformations (scale, rotation, perspective transform) the transformed layer "pops out" and transformed part of the image is fully opaque and drawn on top of everything else together with the

transfomation

gizmo/controls/grid.

Sometimes I'd like to be able to make this semi-transparent to be able

to

align one layer to another, laying underneath it.

Sometimes I use the "Difference" blending type to compare two layers and align stuff precisely. For translation I can use the arrow keys and the blending works, but for perspective transform, scaling or rotation - I can't use my layer's blending while manipulating the transfomation, and that'd be super useful at times.

What do you think?

-- - Tobiasz 'unfa' Karoń

http://soundcloud.com/unfa _______________________________________________ gimp-developer-list mailing list
List address: gimp-developer-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp- developer-list
List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list

_______________________________________________ gimp-developer-list mailing list
List address: gimp-developer-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-

developer-list

List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list

C R
2017-03-05 13:57:37 UTC (about 7 years ago)

Transformation obeying layer blending?

Thanks Tobiasz, :) it's just my own experience as a long time Gimp user. If anyone would like a proper use case write up on it, I can provide that as well if it helps.

Thanks to everyone for all the work and help! -C

On 5 Mar 2017 11:17 a.m., "Tobiasz Karoń" wrote:

What you proposed sounds very sensible to me. It would help a lot of situations, and I don't see any which it would harm.

4 mar 2017 6:51 PM "C R" napisał(a):

The bad news is that opaque is still the default, so you have to take time to adjust the opacity mode each and every time you restart GIMP.

Thus, if you want to transform the layer in relation to what's under it, you have to follow these steps:

1.Start the transform (scale, rotate, unified transform, etc.) 2.Hide the current layer.
3.Adjust the opacity of the transformation preview in the transform tool options.
4.Set grid to zero lines
5.complete transformation
6.Un-hide layer to see the results.

Additionally, you have to do this for each tool you want to use for transforming at least once per gimp session.

This is a lot of work, when all you want to do is see what's under your transformation while transforming.

The steps could be reduced dramatically by changing some of gimps defaults:

1.Start the transformation (GIMP automatically sets transforming layer display to hidden. This is necessary to see the result of your transformation in can see relation to what's below it. GIMP could also set the transform visibility to 75% opacity by default, giving an even better view of what the transformation is covering up. GIMP should hide grid lines by default during transformation unless the user asks for them. They have only ever really gotten in the way, and I have yet to find any good use for them.)
2.Complete the transformation (GIMP unhides the layer, thus showing the transformation in its complete state at full opacity)

So as you can see, this would cut down the work the user has to do a lot when transforming. It would also bring GIMP's transforming into the same ease of use as every other graphics program I've ever used professionally. :) After having lived with it like this every working day for the last 6 years, I have to say, it's still one of my biggest gripes about GIMP's GUI. Can we fix it? Please? Pretty pretty please? :)

-C

On Sat, Mar 4, 2017 at 4:26 PM, Peter O'Regan wrote:

I see what you describe in 2.8 and I agree it would be useful. And fortunately, the development 2.9 build contains an opacity control in

the

transformation tools to do just that! =)

Peter

On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 6:06 AM, Tobiasz Karoń wrote:

Hi!

When doing transformations (scale, rotation, perspective transform) the transformed layer "pops out" and transformed part of the image is fully opaque and drawn on top of everything else together with the

transfomation

gizmo/controls/grid.

Sometimes I'd like to be able to make this semi-transparent to be able

to

align one layer to another, laying underneath it.

Sometimes I use the "Difference" blending type to compare two layers

and

align stuff precisely. For translation I can use the arrow keys and the blending works, but for perspective transform, scaling or rotation - I can't use my layer's blending while manipulating the transfomation, and that'd be super useful at times.

What do you think?

-- - Tobiasz 'unfa' Karoń

http://soundcloud.com/unfa _______________________________________________ gimp-developer-list mailing list
List address: gimp-developer-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp- developer-list
List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list

_______________________________________________ gimp-developer-list mailing list
List address: gimp-developer-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman

/listinfo/gimp-developer-list

List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list

Øyvind Kolås
2017-03-06 08:36:56 UTC (about 7 years ago)

Transformation obeying layer blending?

On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 12:06 PM, Tobiasz Karoń wrote:

When doing transformations (scale, rotation, perspective transform) the transformed layer "pops out" and transformed part of the image is fully opaque and drawn on top of everything else together with the transfomation gizmo/controls/grid.

Sometimes I'd like to be able to make this semi-transparent to be able to align one layer to another, laying underneath it.

The current live preview uses cairo to render the transformed layer on top of the UI, as mentioned - in 2.9 / 2.10 with the ability to control the opacity of the previewed transformed layer. This is awkward, but at last in many cases is a better realtime indication for adjustment than only having a grid, which is all GIMP had bedfore this proxy preview was added.

Work recently/currently being done in GEGL enavling mipmap preview rendering, permits future versions of GIMP to do interactive preview in its correct position in the layer stack and at configured opacity and blending mode. This is not a blocker for 2.10 though - it is an improvement that likely will get attention in the 3.x cycle, possibly while also gaining the ability to do non-destructive transforms as filters attached to invididual layers/groups.

/pippin - GEGL maintainer - http://patreon.com/pippin

C R
2017-03-06 09:14:34 UTC (about 7 years ago)

Transformation obeying layer blending?

Thanks for the update. Is it possible it implement my temporary fix in the meanwhile?
Not saying it should be a blocker, but it would help tremendously in the interim.

Thanks for all your work! -C

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 8:36 AM, Øyvind Kolås wrote:

On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 12:06 PM, Tobiasz Karoń wrote:

When doing transformations (scale, rotation, perspective transform) the transformed layer "pops out" and transformed part of the image is fully opaque and drawn on top of everything else together with the transfomation gizmo/controls/grid.

Sometimes I'd like to be able to make this semi-transparent to be able to align one layer to another, laying underneath it.

The current live preview uses cairo to render the transformed layer on top of the UI, as mentioned - in 2.9 / 2.10 with the ability to control the opacity of the previewed transformed layer. This is awkward, but at last in many cases is a better realtime indication for adjustment than only having a grid, which is all GIMP had bedfore this proxy preview was added.

Work recently/currently being done in GEGL enavling mipmap preview rendering, permits future versions of GIMP to do interactive preview in its correct position in the layer stack and at configured opacity and blending mode. This is not a blocker for 2.10 though - it is an improvement that likely will get attention in the 3.x cycle, possibly while also gaining the ability to do non-destructive transforms as filters attached to invididual layers/groups.

/pippin - GEGL maintainer - http://patreon.com/pippin _______________________________________________ gimp-developer-list mailing list
List address: gimp-developer-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list

Øyvind Kolås
2017-03-06 09:48:49 UTC (about 7 years ago)

Transformation obeying layer blending?

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 10:14 AM, C R wrote:

Thanks for the update. Is it possible it implement my temporary fix in the meanwhile?
Not saying it should be a blocker, but it would help tremendously in the interim.

Integrating your comments/suggestions with bug #315051 would help track also your thinking on a possible interim solution - thus increasing the chance of it being fixed by GIMP UI contributors looking for unresolved issues.

/pippin - GEGL maintainer - https://patreon.com/pippin

C R
2017-03-06 09:53:55 UTC (about 7 years ago)

Transformation obeying layer blending?

I will do a complete write up and video with my suggestions. Thanks for your help, pippin! :)

PS - I joined your Patreon last month. Are you getting the funds okay? I've never signed up to one of these, so I wanted to make sure it's working correctly.

-C

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 9:48 AM, Øyvind Kolås wrote:

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 10:14 AM, C R wrote:

Thanks for the update. Is it possible it implement my temporary fix in the meanwhile?
Not saying it should be a blocker, but it would help tremendously in the interim.

Integrating your comments/suggestions with bug #315051 would help track also your thinking on a possible interim solution - thus increasing the chance of it being fixed by GIMP UI contributors looking for unresolved issues.

/pippin - GEGL maintainer - https://patreon.com/pippin

Øyvind Kolås
2017-03-06 10:52:16 UTC (about 7 years ago)

Transformation obeying layer blending?

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 10:53 AM, C R wrote:

I will do a complete write up and video with my suggestions. Thanks for your help, pippin! :)

PS - I joined your Patreon last month. Are you getting the funds okay? I've never signed up to one of these, so I wanted to make sure it's working correctly.

Thanks a lot for your support on Patreon - the funds accumulate correctly. It has motivated me to (over)spend time and energy on babl/GEGL/GIMP in the last couple of months; surviving financially works nicely as a carrot on top of the stubbornness that has fueled my past contributions. For LGM I plan to have a video/some motion graphics listing appreciation for donors, as well as a release of tidied up sources for the GEGL based tool used for last years lgm goat video, do you have a preferred rendition of your name for that purpose?

/pippin - babl/GEGL lead develoer and maintainer - https://patreon.com/pippin

C R
2017-03-06 12:25:05 UTC (about 7 years ago)

Transformation obeying layer blending?

Hi. :) I do not require credit for the donation, but if you want to include it, you can just add CRogers, which is my /nick on nickserv. Thanks for your help, and if you want any help with your animation or presentation for LGM, let me know.
I did the one for Inkscape at last year's LGM, at the hackfest prior to the event, and folks seemed to like it. :) It was really last-minute though, so obviously the more lead time we have, the better if can be.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/67wva0mryutll7d/inkscape_lgm_video_2016_finished.ogv?dl=0

You can email me directly if you would like to discuss the animations/presentations, or I can meet you on #gimp and we can chat there at your preference.
Really appreciate all the work you're doing on GIMP! It's well worth the funds.

At your service, -C

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 10:52 AM, Øyvind Kolås wrote:

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 10:53 AM, C R wrote:

I will do a complete write up and video with my suggestions. Thanks for your help, pippin! :)

PS - I joined your Patreon last month. Are you getting the funds okay? I've never signed up to one of these, so I wanted to make sure it's working correctly.

Thanks a lot for your support on Patreon - the funds accumulate correctly. It has motivated me to (over)spend time and energy on babl/GEGL/GIMP in the last couple of months; surviving financially works nicely as a carrot on top of the stubbornness that has fueled my past contributions. For LGM I plan to have a video/some motion graphics listing appreciation for donors, as well as a release of tidied up sources for the GEGL based tool used for last years lgm goat video, do you have a preferred rendition of your name for that purpose?

/pippin - babl/GEGL lead develoer and maintainer - https://patreon.com/pippin