On 6/15/06, Jakub Steiner wrote:

Hi GIMP developers,
I write to propose a new default icon set for GIMP 2.4. As GIMP is a multiplatform application it will in my view benefit greatly from an icon set that follows the Tango style guidelines.

You can preview the looks of the new GIMP icon set here:

http://jimmac.musichall.cz/screenshots/gimp-light-tango.png http://jimmac.musichall.cz/screenshots/gimp-dark.png

http://jimmac.musichall.cz/stuff/libgimpwidgets/libgimpwidgets-GimpStock.html

I really like them. They seem a little more distinct from each other than the old ones did, which will make it faster to recognize them. The new eek icon is fantastic.

The only concern I have is the small Wilbers. They seem very square. While it's true that Wilber is somewhat more linear than a true organic shape would be, he still is much more more rounded than the small icons appear.

Will you be planning to create a grayscale version as well, or would it be better to stay with the existing grayscale version for our users that prefer desaturated icons?

Rockwalrus

Very cool!

The only thing is now that the toolbar needs grouping functions like: http://www.neeneenee.de/blender/toolbar.png

or

http://www.neeneenee.de/blender/toolbar02.png

Jakub Steiner schrieb:

Hi GIMP developers,
I write to propose a new default icon set for GIMP 2.4. As GIMP is a multiplatform application it will in my view benefit greatly from an icon set that follows the Tango style guidelines [1].

Apart from defining a common visual style for free software applications, one of the design goals was to make applications look close to native on major desktop environments. The current GIMP set includes elements that made the icons look quite unique (desaturated colors, black stroke). That may not sound like problem, but as GIMP has a lot of users on the windows and macintosh platforms, it is desirable not to look "out of place" on those platforms. Similarly, KDE users will most probably find GIMP look less alien on their desktop.

You can preview the looks of the new GIMP icon set here:

http://jimmac.musichall.cz/screenshots/gimp-light-tango.png http://jimmac.musichall.cz/screenshots/gimp-dark.png

http://jimmac.musichall.cz/stuff/libgimpwidgets/libgimpwidgets-GimpStock.html

While the set isn't completely finished yet (some preference icons missing) I'd like to thank Lapo Calamandrei and William Szilveszter for their contributions.

And lastly -- this isn't a lonesome effort. Andreas Nilsson already contributed large amounts of icons that follow the Tango guidelines to the Scribus project [2]. At the same time, I am well into having an OpenOffice set done [3]. After these are done, work will resume on the gnome icon theme [4].

Also worth mentioning -- there is a project to create a standard set of stock icons for graphic applications with a rather unimaginitive name - Tango Art Libre [5]. This will allow to unify metaphors and perhaps even share resources. This is still work in progress.

cheers

[1] - http://tango.freedesktop.org/Tango_Icon_Theme_Guidelines [2] - http://kde-artists.org/taxonomy/term/21 [3] - http://jimmac.musichall.cz/i.php?i=Tango-OOo [4] - http://jimmac.musichall.cz/i.php?i=git2 [5] - http://tango.freedesktop.org/ArtLibreSet

On 6/15/06, Jakub Steiner wrote:

Making the art greyscale is a matter of running:

`mogrify -colorspace gray *png`

This is not the optimal approach. An exact greyscale conversion such as this loses many details of color contrast. For example a smooth Red->Blue gradient will be a solid white area. There are algorithms to convert to greyscale with different grey values for each original color channel, these should be investigated before a wholesale conversion is done.

As to Tango itself... Just because one group decided to put out some "standard" icons doesnt mean everyone should use them. I am ambivalent to the issue, considering nice SVG icons to be a plus, but also considering small sharp icons handy especially when working on embedded platforms. And Tango's icons in particular do not appeal (or dis-appeal) to me. We can do better.

Jakub Steiner writes:

You can preview the looks of the new GIMP icon set here:

Nice icons! I have one comment about the SIOX icon in the light set.

In current CVS, I find that the SIOX icon looks very different from the rest. It constantly draws my eye to it and makes me think that it is the selected icon even when it isn't, because it's an icon on a darker square background which makes it look a bit like a "pushed in" button. I was hoping this this was only temporary and would change in the new icon set, but it looks like the SIOX icon hasn't changed as much as the others.

Would it be possible to make its background lighter, or even get rid of the background, to make its style better match the other buttons?

...Akkana

On 6/16/06, Akkana Peck wrote:

Jakub Steiner writes:

You can preview the looks of the new GIMP icon set here:

Nice icons! I have one comment about the SIOX icon in the light set.

In current CVS, I find that the SIOX icon looks very different from the rest. It constantly draws my eye to it and makes me think that it is the selected icon even when it isn't, because it's an icon on a darker square background which makes it look a bit like a "pushed in" button. I was hoping this this was only temporary and would change in the new icon set, but it looks like the SIOX icon hasn't changed as much as the others.

Would it be possible to make its background lighter, or even get rid of the background, to make its style better match the other buttons?

Personally I think replacing the background with a dithering pattern would be appropriate.. or halving it's alpha. (I prefer the dithering cause it is reasonably well known as a way of denoting disabled items/ unimportant items)..
re: dithering, I meant a pattern like this: x-x-x-x-x-x
-x-x-x-x-x-
x-x-x-x-x-x
-x-x-x-x-x-

where x is completely solid and - is completely transparent.

I'm ambivalent about the outside frame.. I think it needs to go to eliminate the pressed-button look, but it doesn't jump out at me like the BG.

Also, jimmac, what prompted the reduction of the outline contrast on the FGselect icons? Just that it was difficult to make work at the lower sizes?

The crop tool icon is a bit more incomprehensible than the previous icon.. which I eventually came to recognize on occasion as a scalpel. It could work better to emphasize the cutting edge by making the blade darker and flat, highlighting the edge in near-solid white... Or maybe it's meant to look like a razor.. In any case, I think that killing some of the shading and emphasizing the edge is wise.

Otherwise, most of these are a big improvement.. particularly in clarity and sharpness, I appreciate the pixeling skill involved. (the brightness/contrast icon is about perfect particularly. ). I like the new colors much better too.

One other thing.. I don't really apprehend the paint in the paintbucket as paint. It's not that it's diffusely shiny, more that it's so rectangular.. if you made a semi-isolated drip at the end, i think it could be solved that way.

Clarence Risher wrote:

On 6/15/06, Jakub Steiner wrote:

Making the art greyscale is a matter of running:

`mogrify -colorspace gray *png`

As to Tango itself... Just because one group decided to put out some "standard" icons doesnt mean everyone should use them. I am ambivalent to the issue, considering nice SVG icons to be a plus, but also considering small sharp icons handy especially when working on embedded platforms. And Tango's icons in particular do not appeal (or dis-appeal) to me. We can do better.

I´ve been thinking of doing doing a high-contrast set for graphics apps, that probably could look nice on tiny screens. It´s a bit further down on my personal todo-list though. As I´ve understood, noone has ever suggested removing gimps option to choose icon sets and having the default set looking the same as the other tools in the free software artists toolbox (like inkscape and scribus) can´t really be a bad thing, right? - Andreas

On 6/15/06, Jakub Steiner wrote:

Thanks for the constructive feedback Akkana. It indeed is one of the few icons with solid background. I tried to convey the fg/bg separation message better this time around. Does that work for you?

http://jimmac.musichall.cz/wipicons/Tango-GIMP//stock-tool-foreground-select-22.png

It looks good, but the green arrow is hardly recognizable as arrow :(

Alexandre

Jakub Steiner writes:

Thanks for the constructive feedback Akkana. It indeed is one of the few icons with solid background. I tried to convey the fg/bg separation message better this time around. Does that work for you?

http://jimmac.musichall.cz/wipicons/Tango-GIMP//stock-tool-foreground-select-22.png

Much better! It still stands out a little, especially if you put it into a stock toolbox that doesn't have any of the other icons-with-background enabled (so it's the only icon whose outline is a square box instead of an irregular shape). But the important thing is that it no longer looks selected, and it doesn't draw the eye away from the other tools so much now.

...Akkana

On Thursday, June 15, 2006, 14:16:26, Jakub Steiner wrote:

I write to propose a new default icon set for GIMP 2.4. As GIMP is a multiplatform application it will in my view benefit greatly from an icon set that follows the Tango style guidelines [1].

Here are two sample images how the set looks on Windows:

Personally I found some of presented icons less recognizable than original ones. It concerns:

1. magic wand - the spark is not distinguishable in light set

2. the hand in select by colour tool looks "spreaded" and isn't recognizable too.

3. intelligent scissors have lost the path.

4. dimensions tool looks better than original one but still needs improvement - its lines are too wide and so the tool itself looks less recognizable it could be.

5. Transformation tools have lost contrast lines which have become too wide and so it's hard to understand what do they mean. Look at the arrows at the rotation tool - how excellent they were visible before.

My overall opinion is: some of the lines became too wide and have lost contrast, which has lead to loose of volume of pictures. Too wide and less contrast lines are worse recognizable.

0> In article ,
0> Alexander Rabtchevich ("AR") wrote:

AR> 2. the hand in select by colour tool looks "spreaded" and isn't AR> recognizable too.

I was going to mention this. The one for the smudge tool is good, and a fairly natural shade of pink[1], but the one in colour-select is very orange and the outline is indistinct. I read the comments in this thread about black outlines not being in favour, but I think that rather than simply darkening the solid colour for the outline, it ought to be darkened and a little desaturated.

[1] If it's a problem getting a good colour here, we could try using a darker (non-Caucasian) skin colour...

On Thu, 15 Jun 2006, Jakub Steiner wrote:

Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 14:16:26 +0200 From: Jakub Steiner
Reply-To: jimmac@novell.com
To: gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu Subject: [Gimp-developer] new default icon theme proposal

Hi GIMP developers, I write to propose a new default icon set for GIMP 2.4. As GIMP is a multiplatform application it will in my view benefit greatly from an icon set that follows the Tango style guidelines [1].

Will the old icons be offered as a seperate theme set?

If the answer is yes then I look forward to seeing both themes included soon. Even if your new Tango theme is not ready/complete enough to be immediately set as the default it would be great to have the option to start live testing it alongside the existing icons.

This theme:
http://art.gnome.org/themes/icon/1261

Is based in Tango too, what is the differences??

Regards, Dalai

2006/6/17, Alan Horkan :

On Thu, 15 Jun 2006, Jakub Steiner wrote:

Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 14:16:26 +0200 From: Jakub Steiner
Reply-To: jimmac@novell.com
To: gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu Subject: [Gimp-developer] new default icon theme proposal

Hi GIMP developers, I write to propose a new default icon set for GIMP 2.4. As GIMP is a multiplatform application it will in my view benefit greatly from an icon set that follows the Tango style guidelines [1].

Will the old icons be offered as a seperate theme set?

If the answer is yes then I look forward to seeing both themes included soon. Even if your new Tango theme is not ready/complete enough to be immediately set as the default it would be great to have the option to start live testing it alongside the existing icons.

-- Alan H.

On Sat, 17 Jun 2006, Dalai Felinto wrote:

Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 11:00:13 -0300 From: Dalai Felinto
To: Alan Horkan
Cc: jimmac@novell.com, Not Photoshop Subject: Re: Old and new [Re: [Gimp-developer] new default icon theme proposal]

This theme:
http://art.gnome.org/themes/icon/1261

Is based in Tango too, what is the differences??

That is a Gnome theme.

Jimmac is working on a theme to replace the icons in the GNU Image Manipulation Program which is more specific and has its own internal icon themes.

Hi,

On Sat, 2006-06-17 at 09:54 +0100, Alan Horkan wrote:

Will the old icons be offered as a seperate theme set?

If someone wants to create such a theme, we might consider to include it. I would suggest however that is it being shipped as a separate package. Perhaps we could have a package gimp-themes and one of the themes it provides would be "Classic"

Sven

On Sun, 18 Jun 2006, Sven Neumann wrote:

Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:01:00 +0200 From: Sven Neumann
To: Alan Horkan
Cc: jimmac@novell.com, Not Photoshop Subject: Re: Old and new [Re: [Gimp-developer] new default icon theme proposal]

Hi,

On Sat, 2006-06-17 at 09:54 +0100, Alan Horkan wrote:

Will the old icons be offered as a seperate theme set?

If someone wants to create such a theme, we might consider to include it.

I was thinking that if Jimmac created his new theme independently - something he might have already done - it would remove any need to delay its introduction. The theme could be added now it could be made the default later when it was completely ready.

If you are happy to make it the default in the next release then it wouldn't be worth doing any extra work.

I would suggest however that is it being shipped as a separate package. Perhaps we could have a package gimp-themes and one of the themes it provides would be "Classic"

Could it be included in gimp-data extras, might save you having to create another package?

These three icons are very seemed:

#define GIMP_STOCK_CHANNEL "gimp-channel" #define GIMP_STOCK_CHANNEL_GRAY "gimp-channel-gray" #define GIMP_STOCK_CHANNEL_ALPHA "gimp-channel-alpha"

http://jimmac.musichall.cz/stuff/libgimpwidgets/stock-channel-48.png http://jimmac.musichall.cz/stuff/libgimpwidgets/stock-channel-gray-48.png http://jimmac.musichall.cz/stuff/libgimpwidgets/stock-channel-alpha-48.png

2006/6/18, Alan Horkan :

On Sun, 18 Jun 2006, Sven Neumann wrote:

Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:01:00 +0200 From: Sven Neumann
To: Alan Horkan
Cc: jimmac@novell.com, Not Photoshop <

gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu>

Subject: Re: Old and new [Re: [Gimp-developer] new default icon theme proposal]

Hi,

On Sat, 2006-06-17 at 09:54 +0100, Alan Horkan wrote:

Will the old icons be offered as a seperate theme set?

If someone wants to create such a theme, we might consider to include it.

I was thinking that if Jimmac created his new theme independently - something he might have already done - it would remove any need to delay its introduction. The theme could be added now it could be made the default later when it was completely ready.

If you are happy to make it the default in the next release then it wouldn't be worth doing any extra work.

I would suggest however that is it being shipped as a separate package. Perhaps we could have a package gimp-themes and one of the themes it provides would be "Classic"

Could it be included in gimp-data extras, might save you having to create another package?

--
Alan

Hi,

On Sun, 2006-06-18 at 20:19 +0100, Alan Horkan wrote:

I was thinking that if Jimmac created his new theme independently - something he might have already done - it would remove any need to delay its introduction. The theme could be added now it could be made the default later when it was completely ready.

The new theme will replace the current icons in CVS very soon now, definitely before the next release.

Sven

.. I meant to send that to the list. Sorry if this is duplicated; gimpdev didn't show up on the list of recipients.

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: David Gowers
Date: Jun 21, 2006 10:59 PM
Subject: Re: Old and new [Re: [Gimp-developer] new default icon theme proposal]
To: Sven Neumann

After actually trying the new icon theme:

* The Scissors icon is the only vague tool icon -- i think the semi-transparent areas should be colored darker. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v449/neota/style/iconedit/blurry-scissors.png

* The path and paths icon are somewhat indistinct: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v449/neota/style/iconedit/indistinct-paths.png

So I tuned them a bit, with the following results:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v449/neota/style/iconedit/stock-path-16.png http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v449/neota/style/iconedit/stock-path-22.png http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v449/neota/style/iconedit/stock-paths-22.png http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v449/neota/style/iconedit/stock-paths-16.png

Which perhaps can replace the current ones. Mainly, it hurts clarity to use antialiasing on 45 degree lines; but I also cleaned up all the antialiasing of the path line.

* The Ink icon is the best -- clear, iconic, and attractive. * The Undo icon is a massive improvement on it's predecessor. * While the Duplicate icon is a little confusing at first, it's definitely more distinct and clear than it's predecessor. * The Convert To Indexed icon is wonderfully colorful -- reminds me of Rainbow Islands.

you all took the blue pill didn't you?

this is just another Aqua theme.

if we do not count downloads, how come we worry about making it easy to use to the point where it looks like just another aqua-themed application?

i appreciate the work that went into this, just i also know that mr. steiner prides himself with making a "clean" look. i would like you to consider that the word "clean" and the word "icon" contradict themselves in almost all of the meanings of those words.

these icons are going to clash so much with my desktop.

if we do not count downloads, then what is the reason that we seem to think that we have to develop/change it to be easier to use?

because anonymous people in forums paste the same thing that some person wrote a few years ago?

please at least provide the option to not go aqua....

carol