Yes.

On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 7:59 PM, Guy Sunderland wrote:

Hi.

Simple question: Does GIMP work on Windows 8.1?

Regards,

Mr G.Sunderland _______________________________________________ gimp-developer-list mailing list
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To be fair, we got one quite disgruntled user recently who said exactly this:

"This is Windows 8.1, As I already said, your installer puts all the .dll files in the bin folder. They won't work there. I have to move all of them to the Windows/System32 folder where they belong."

Now, as some of team members pointed out, System32 sounds like he's on Windows 98 (with Windows 95 habits) rather than on 8.1. But is it correct to out .dll files there? And if it is, why would GIMP not work then?

Alex

On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 1:54 PM, Partha Bagchi wrote:

Yes.

On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 7:59 PM, Guy Sunderland wrote:

Hi.

Simple question: Does GIMP work on Windows 8.1?

My Windows 8.1 system has a Windows/System32, presumably for 32-bit .dlls

I would imagine that moving the .dlls from your 64-bit GIMP installation into the System32 folder might not be too successful.

I would also suggest that the disgruntled user doesn't know what they are talking about.

Kevin

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 20:07:16 +0300 From: alexandre.prokoudine@gmail.com CC: gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] Windows 8.1

To be fair, we got one quite disgruntled user recently who said exactly this:

"This is Windows 8.1, As I already said, your installer puts all the .dll files in the bin folder. They won't work there. I have to move all of them to the Windows/System32 folder where they belong."

Now, as some of team members pointed out, System32 sounds like he's on Windows 98 (with Windows 95 habits) rather than on 8.1. But is it correct to out .dll files there? And if it is, why would GIMP not work then?

Alex

On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 1:54 PM, Partha Bagchi wrote:

Yes.

On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 7:59 PM, Guy Sunderland wrote:

Hi.

Simple question: Does GIMP work on Windows 8.1?

_______________________________________________ gimp-developer-list mailing list
List address: gimp-developer-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list

On Saturday, April 11, 2015, 19:07:16, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:

"This is Windows 8.1, As I already said, your installer puts all the .dll files in the bin folder. They won't work there. I have to move all of them to the Windows/System32 folder where they belong."

Now, as some of team members pointed out, System32 sounds like he's on Windows 98 (with Windows 95 habits) rather than on 8.1. But is it correct to out .dll files there? And if it is, why would GIMP not work then?

System32 is only intended for libraries that are part of the OS. Any installer that puts it's own DLLs there is broken.

The problem here is that while gimp.exe and it's libraries are in bin\, the plugins are in lib\gimp\2.0\plug-ins\. GIMP does set the environment to have bin\ directory in PATH, but if there's a DLL with the same name as one used by plug-ins in System32, it'll take precedence (DLL search order on Windows is executable directory, System32 [SysWOW64 for 32-bit programs on 64-bit Windows], System, Windows, current directory, %PATH%).

Since System32 has precedence over %PATH%, the plugins may stop working if an older version of library is installed in System32. For this reason, I suggest that once the plugin API is broken (GIMP 3?) that the plugins on Windows move to the bin\ directory, possibly with a different extension than .exe (or maybe a double extension - .plugin.exe?). This way they'll always use the libraries that ship with GIMP.

< Jernej Simoni ><><><><>< http://eternallybored.org/ >

Machines should work. People should think.
       -- IBM Pollyanna Principle (IBM'S Incorrect Principle)

I understand there are patches out there that make Windows 8.1 “look like” (i.e. behave similarly) to earlier (non-swipable) versions of Windows. These patches are to make upgrades to Windows 8.1 from Win 7 more palatable. Maybe they are creating this problem?

Burnie

On Apr 11, 2015, at 10:07 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:

To be fair, we got one quite disgruntled user recently who said exactly this:

"This is Windows 8.1, As I already said, your installer puts all the .dll files in the bin folder. They won't work there. I have to move all of them to the Windows/System32 folder where they belong."

Now, as some of team members pointed out, System32 sounds like he's on Windows 98 (with Windows 95 habits) rather than on 8.1. But is it correct to out .dll files there? And if it is, why would GIMP not work then?

Alex

On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 1:54 PM, Partha Bagchi wrote:

Yes.

On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 7:59 PM, Guy Sunderland wrote:

Hi.

Simple question: Does GIMP work on Windows 8.1?

_______________________________________________ gimp-developer-list mailing list
List address: gimp-developer-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list

Windows has generically used System32 folder for system DLLs (64-bit Windows keep 64-bit DLLS in the System32 folder). The 32-bit DLLs are stored in WOW64. So, there is no reason that Gimp, sorry GIMP would not work if DLLs are located in the System32 folder.

Having said that, I personally think it's bad practice for software to store DLLs in System32 folder. Given Windows DLL search algorithm, software should keep their DLLs in their own folder or within their folder hierarchy.

On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:

To be fair, we got one quite disgruntled user recently who said exactly this:

"This is Windows 8.1, As I already said, your installer puts all the .dll files in the bin folder. They won't work there. I have to move all of them to the Windows/System32 folder where they belong."

Now, as some of team members pointed out, System32 sounds like he's on Windows 98 (with Windows 95 habits) rather than on 8.1. But is it correct to out .dll files there? And if it is, why would GIMP not work then?

Alex

On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 1:54 PM, Partha Bagchi wrote:

Yes.

On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 7:59 PM, Guy Sunderland wrote:

Hi.

Simple question: Does GIMP work on Windows 8.1?

_______________________________________________ gimp-developer-list mailing list
List address: gimp-developer-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list

I don't know what patch you are talking about? There was shell available that provide the start button for Windows 8. However, Windows 8.1 does not need that since you can easily access your desktop from the home screen.

Window 10 (currently in preview mode) will make this irrelevant.

On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 3:37 PM, Burnell West wrote:

I understand there are patches out there that make Windows 8.1 “look like” (i.e. behave similarly) to earlier (non-swipable) versions of Windows. These patches are to make upgrades to Windows 8.1 from Win 7 more palatable. Maybe they are creating this problem?

Burnie

On Apr 11, 2015, at 10:07 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:

To be fair, we got one quite disgruntled user recently who said exactly this:

"This is Windows 8.1, As I already said, your installer puts all the .dll files in the bin folder. They won't work there. I have to move all of them to the Windows/System32 folder where they belong."

Now, as some of team members pointed out, System32 sounds like he's on Windows 98 (with Windows 95 habits) rather than on 8.1. But is it correct to out .dll files there? And if it is, why would GIMP not work then?

Alex

On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 1:54 PM, Partha Bagchi wrote:

Yes.

On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 7:59 PM, Guy Sunderland wrote:

Hi.

Simple question: Does GIMP work on Windows 8.1?

_______________________________________________ gimp-developer-list mailing list
List address: gimp-developer-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list

_______________________________________________ gimp-developer-list mailing list
List address: gimp-developer-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list

On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 09:34:11PM +0200, Jernej Simončič wrote:

The problem here is that while gimp.exe and it's libraries are in bin\, the plugins are in lib\gimp\2.0\plug-ins\. GIMP does set the environment to have bin\ directory in PATH, but if there's a DLL with the same name as one used by plug-ins in System32, it'll take precedence (DLL search order on Windows is executable directory, System32 [SysWOW64 for 32-bit programs on 64-bit Windows], System, Windows, current directory, %PATH%).

GIMP plug-ins are regular programs not DLLs, and they are executed by GIMP. You can check the paths to these in the pluginrc that is typically stored in %appdata%\Roaming.

The DLLs that these plug-in programs require are located in the bin directory.

I suspect that this person has not set PATH. For example, the nightly builds from darkrefraction.com just extract the tree of files and expect a user to run the "run_gimp.bat" batch file (which sets PATH). If one were to run gimp-2.9.exe directly in this case, the plug-ins that link to DLLs would not find them (e.g., the file format ones that look for libpng, libtiff, libjpeg, etc.).

The regular Windows installer sets this up, so you may want to ask that person which installer was used.

Mukund

On 12. april 2015, 9:14:59, Mukund Sivaraman wrote:

GIMP plug-ins are regular programs not DLLs, and they are executed by GIMP. You can check the paths to these in the pluginrc that is typically stored in %appdata%\Roaming.

Not only I'm aware of that, but this is the sole reason for the problems I described. If they were DLLs, we wouldn't have these problems, since the required libraries would've already been loaded by GIMP.

I suspect that this person has not set PATH. For example, the nightly builds from darkrefraction.com just extract the tree of files and expect a user to run the "run_gimp.bat" batch file (which sets PATH). If one were to run gimp-2.9.exe directly in this case, the plug-ins that link to DLLs would not find them (e.g., the file format ones that look for libpng, libtiff, libjpeg, etc.).

Like I said, if something put an older version of a DLL GIMP's plugins use to System32, PATH won't matter, as it's only checked after System32.

< Jernej Simončič ><><><><>< http://eternallybored.org/ >

The number of errors made is equal to the sum of the squares employed.
       -- Transcription Square Law