Sent: 2012-02-06 13:56:41 UTC (3 months ago)

From: Dominique Schmidt

Text-Handling in GIMP: Vision

permalink

In the process of redesigning text handling in GIMP we have come up with a
vision. It draws from responses on the list and IRC discussions and has
been put together by Peter, Kate and me.

http://gui.gimp.org/index.php/Text-Handling_in_GIMP:_Vision

Particularly asking for comments from mitch and nomis as you guys are
probably the main developers for this work.

thanks,

dominique

Sent: 2012-02-06 15:16:58 UTC (3 months ago)

From: John Harris

Text-Handling in GIMP: Vision

permalink

Just my two cents as a professional user:

* Text in GIMP is always part of the composition - (unless it is an
annotation)
* There is no such thing as paging in gimp

Agreed. Multi-page layout work is best performed by word processing
apps, and advanced design using illustration apps.

* Text in gimp has form and symbolic meaning, but meta levels of
information in text are not supported

I invite us to consider changing this paradigm. With the expanding
adoption of DAM tools in the professional environment, having the text
within Gimp files searchable can be a plus for the user and potentially
beneficial for further adoption by professionals.

* /Complete control over typography and the layout of text on the canvas/

This needs expansion. What exactly would be included in "complete control"?
If this is referring to traditional typographic adjustments such as
kearning, leading, tracking,justification, decoration etc., I believe
the developers have that covered already.
If you are suggesting enhanced tools, I have some ideas such as

* Drop shadow adjustments
o Color
o Opacity
o Blur levels
o Blending modes
* Rapid Access to character maps
* Access to additional font metrics and character sets when available
within the font file.

* /unicode supported localisation of text tools/

This sounds like a great idea!

* /text editing for ever/

This could use some clarification. Can you reword this in greater detail?

super-fast workflow, when they are experienced
While the existing text tool performs decently for me, speed-wise, I
would like to vote up faster workflows. Sometimes though, a faster
workflow just comes from a simpler interface. Having to go back and
forth between the text box and the pallet is an example of where the
existing system is lacking some simplicity. I also understand that at
some point, a limit to the number of features added to the tool will be
reached, or we are in danger of bloat, both visually and virtually.

On 02/06/2012 06:56 AM, Dominique Schmidt wrote:
> In the process of redesigning text handling in GIMP we have come up
> with a vision. It draws from responses on the list and IRC discussions
> and has been put together by Peter, Kate and me.
>
> http://gui.gimp.org/index.php/Text-Handling_in_GIMP:_Vision
>
> Particularly asking for comments from mitch and nomis as you guys are
> probably the main developers for this work.
>
> thanks,
>
> dominique
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> gimp-developer-list mailing list
> gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list

Sent: 2012-02-06 15:57:13 UTC (3 months ago)

From: John Harris

Brush ideas

permalink

Around 18 years ago, during the original clone-tool wars ( sorry, I had
to do it. ) when digital retouching systems were all fighting to be top
dog, I used a proprietary retouching workstation called "Superset".
Some of the tools in this system were not only amazing at the time, but
have yet to be duplicated today.

The airbrush and cloning tools used stocastic brushes that were
recalculated with every "hit" or "impression" of the brush. This is the
closest I have ever seen a digital brush come to the performance of a
real airbrush. This made for band-free soft brushes and the ability to
create textures with amazing results. Skin textures and such were
incredible. The brushes could be scaled almost indefinitely with no
scaling artifacts. These brushes were blazing fast and all done on 486
era processors!

Another system, this one by Abra - also proprietary, had a "scramble" or
"randomize" tool. This tool operated like a brush and when applied
would randomize the pixels within the brushes defined area. Extremely
useful for facial retouch work.

Sent: 2012-02-06 22:29:02 UTC (3 months ago)

From: Bogdan Szczurek

Brush ideas

permalink

Dnia Mon, Feb 06, 2012 at 08:57:13AM -0700, John Harris napisał był:
> Around 18 years ago, during the original clone-tool wars ( sorry, I
> had to do it. ) when digital retouching systems were all fighting to
> be top dog, I used a proprietary retouching workstation called
> "Superset". Some of the tools in this system were not only amazing
> at the time, but have yet to be duplicated today.
>
> The airbrush and cloning tools used stocastic brushes that were
> recalculated with every "hit" or "impression" of the brush. This is
> the closest I have ever seen a digital brush come to the performance
> of a real airbrush. This made for band-free soft brushes and the
> ability to create textures with amazing results. Skin textures and
> such were incredible. The brushes could be scaled almost
> indefinitely with no scaling artifacts. These brushes were blazing
> fast and all done on 486 era processors!
>
> Another system, this one by Abra - also proprietary, had a
> "scramble" or "randomize" tool. This tool operated like a brush and
> when applied would randomize the pixels within the brushes defined
> area. Extremely useful for facial retouch work.

+1 for that idea!

My best!
thebodzio

Sent: 2012-02-07 18:03:12 UTC (3 months ago)

From: Nathan Summers

Text-Handling in GIMP: Vision

permalink

On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 10:16 AM, John Harris wrote:
> Just my two cents as a professional user:
>
> Complete control over typography and the layout of text on the canvas
>
> This needs expansion. What exactly would be included in "complete control"?
> If this is referring to traditional typographic adjustments such as
> kearning, leading, tracking,justification, decoration etc., I believe the
> developers have that covered already.

I'm guessing they are referring as well to OpenType features like
alternative forms and ligatures.

Rockwalrus

Sent: 2012-02-08 08:32:39 UTC (3 months ago)

From: Dominique Schmidt

Text-Handling in GIMP: Vision

permalink

Thanks for your input!

On 6 February 2012 16:16, John Harris wrote:

> Just my two cents as a professional user:
>
>
> - Text in GIMP is always part of the composition - (unless it is an
> annotation)
> - There is no such thing as paging in gimp
>
> Agreed. Multi-page layout work is best performed by word processing apps,
> and advanced design using illustration apps.
>
> - Text in gimp has form and symbolic meaning, but meta levels of
> information in text are not supported
>
> I invite us to consider changing this paradigm. With the expanding
> adoption of DAM tools in the professional environment, having the text
> within Gimp files searchable can be a plus for the user and potentially
> beneficial for further adoption by professionals.
>
>
>
> - *Complete control over typography and the layout of text on the
> canvas*
>
> This needs expansion. What exactly would be included in "complete control"?
> If this is referring to traditional typographic adjustments such as
> kearning, leading, tracking,justification, decoration etc., I believe the
> developers have that covered already.
> If you are suggesting enhanced tools, I have some ideas such as
>
> - Drop shadow adjustments
> - Color
> - Opacity
> - Blur levels
> - Blending modes
> - Rapid Access to character maps
> - Access to additional font metrics and character sets when available
> within the font file.
>
> In this case we are not referring to effects like drop-shadows but to - as
Nathan pointed out - OpenType functionality plus some additional
functionality. I guess this will be more clear in the functionality
overview, which is based on the vision. going to pass this around soon.

>
> -
>
>
> - *unicode supported localisation of text tools*
>
> This sounds like a great idea!
>
>
> - *text editing for ever*
>
> This could use some clarification. Can you reword this in greater detail?
>
text stays editable (no matter how much it has been altered by effects)

>
> super-fast workflow, when they are experienced
> While the existing text tool performs decently for me, speed-wise, I would
> like to vote up faster workflows. Sometimes though, a faster workflow just
> comes from a simpler interface. Having to go back and forth between the
> text box and the pallet is an example of where the existing system is
> lacking some simplicity. I also understand that at some point, a limit to
> the number of features added to the tool will be reached, or we are in
> danger of bloat, both visually and virtually.
>
>
> On 02/06/2012 06:56 AM, Dominique Schmidt wrote:
>
> In the process of redesigning text handling in GIMP we have come up with a
> vision. It draws from responses on the list and IRC discussions and has
> been put together by Peter, Kate and me.
>
> http://gui.gimp.org/index.php/Text-Handling_in_GIMP:_Vision
>
> Particularly asking for comments from mitch and nomis as you guys are
> probably the main developers for this work.
>
> thanks,
>
> dominique
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> gimp-developer-list mailing listgimp-developer-list@gnome.orghttp://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> gimp-developer-list mailing list
> gimp-developer-list@gnome.org
> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
>
>