Sent: 2010-08-29 09:01:49 UTC (over 1 year ago)

From: LightningIsMyName

Wish: A better animation system inside GIMP

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Hello,

Currently, creating animations in GIMP is not done in a very clean
way. To specify the duration of each frame and to specify whether it
should stay or be hidden after that period, we abuse the layer names.
Until recently we also had a limit of one layer per frame so we
couldn't have had a frame composed out of several layers (so
maintaining the frames had to be done in other files), but now layer
groups can solve this (so the animation process is now a bit better).

I'm posting here a small wishlist regarding using GIMP for animations,
to get the general approval before posting it as an enhancement
request in bugzilla:

* More supported frame disposal modes - GIF has 3 frame disposal
modes (taken from
http://www.webreference.com/content/studio/disposal.html ):
1. "Leave" - after the period of the frame has ended, the frame's
pixels will remain visible and the next frames will be displayed on
top of it. This mode IS supported in GIMP.
2. "Restore Previous" - after the period of the frame has ended, the
frame's pixels will become transparent and will allow to see what was
in that region before the current frame covered it. This mode IS
supported in GIMP.
3. "Restore Background" - after the period of the frame has ended, the
rectangle of that frame will be replaced by a transparent rectangle.
It's similar to "Restore Previous", except for the fact that after the
frame disappears you won't be able to see what was below it. This
mode IS NOT supported in GIMP, and this is the mode I want to add.
Supporting this mode means modifying the gif load/save plugin, the
animation preview plugin and possibly the un/optimize plugins.

* A better animation editing modes. Abusing the layer modes is a very
bad way to do this (at least in my opinion) - see a similar case in
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=344910 comment 3. We should
remember the animation parameters using parasites, and by having some
animation editor plugin (which leads to my next point - an animation
editor)

* GIMP should have an animation editor which is integrated with a
preview of the animation. Editing the animation and then closing the
editor just to open the preview plugin is a very bad workflow. You
should be able to preview from the same place you edit.
Also, the editor should allow to edit the parasites of the layers
which include the animation parameter.
I have something in mind similar to MS Gif Animator
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_GIF_Animator), or anything
with a similar simple UI.

This is how I imagine the animation workflow with GIMP - I'll
appreciate some feedback.
~LightningIsMyName

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Sent: 2010-08-29 09:15:53 UTC (over 1 year ago)

From: Olivier

Wish: A better animation system inside GIMP

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You seem to be interested only in animated GIF?

Even in this case, are you aware of the GIMP Animation Package?

Olivier Lecarme

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Sent: 2010-08-29 09:37:30 UTC (over 1 year ago)

From: LightningIsMyName

Wish: A better animation system inside GIMP

permalink

Hello,

Forgot to mention that it would also require to change most animation
scripts and GAP...

On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 10:15 AM, Olivier wrote:
> You seem to be interested only in animated GIF?
>
> Even in this case, are you aware of the GIMP Animation Package?
>
> Olivier Lecarme

First of all, yes - I am aware of GAP and I used it several times
(although I'm still not completely familiar with it).

Still, abusing layer names must stop and this is my main request - and
in order to stop this we must introduce a very simple animation editor
(since we have many animation scripts and it should be possible to
edit their result). GAP is very good and complicated, and I'm
referring to something much simpler only to edit the frame
duration/disposal (instead of the ugly layer name hack) - nothing
more.

~LightningIsMyName

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Sent: 2010-08-29 10:05:13 UTC (over 1 year ago)

From: Alexandre Prokoudine

Wish: A better animation system inside GIMP

permalink

On 8/29/10, LightningIsMyName wrote:

> Still, abusing layer names must stop and this is my main request - and
> in order to stop this we must introduce a very simple animation editor

With keyframing, presumably?

Alexandre Prokoudine
http://libregraphicsworld.org

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Sent: 2010-08-29 10:37:40 UTC (over 1 year ago)

From: Olivier

Wish: A better animation system inside GIMP

permalink

2010/8/29 LightningIsMyName

> Hello,
>
> Forgot to mention that it would also require to change most animation
> scripts and GAP...
>
> On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 10:15 AM, Olivier wrote:
> > You seem to be interested only in animated GIF?
> >
> > Even in this case, are you aware of the GIMP Animation Package?
> >
> > Olivier Lecarme
>
> First of all, yes - I am aware of GAP and I used it several times
> (although I'm still not completely familiar with it).
>
> Still, abusing layer names must stop and this is my main request - and
> in order to stop this we must introduce a very simple animation editor
> (since we have many animation scripts and it should be possible to
> edit their result). GAP is very good and complicated, and I'm
> referring to something much simpler only to edit the frame
> duration/disposal (instead of the ugly layer name hack) - nothing
> more.
>
> GAP is not very complicated, simply it is not well described.

If you are interested in multi-layer animations, the duration and mode of
layers is obviously a layer property. Why not use the layer name for this?
It is available and not very useful for anything else in this precise case.

--
Olivier Lecarme

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Sent: 2010-08-29 19:57:37 UTC (over 1 year ago)

From: Martin Nordholts

Wish: A better animation system inside GIMP

permalink

On 08/29/2010 09:01 AM, LightningIsMyName wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Currently, creating animations in GIMP is not done in a very clean
> way.

That's not a problem since creating animations is not a defined goal in
the GIMP product vision. I rather think we should remove support for
animations in GIMP for 3.0, plug-ins can supply that functionality instead.

/ Martin

--

My GIMP Blog:
http://www.chromecode.com/
"Automatic tab style and removed tab title bar"
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Sent: 2010-08-30 15:52:02 UTC (over 1 year ago)

From: Daniel Pinheiro Lima

Wish: A better animation system inside GIMP

permalink

Hi guys,

> That's not a problem since creating animations is not a defined goal in
> the GIMP product vision. I rather think we should remove support for
> animations in GIMP for 3.0, plug-ins can supply that functionality instead.

I'm pretty aware that animations are not the goal in GIMP, however,
I'm working in the past five years with GIMP to produce animations.
Anyway, the thing is, I believe that the GIMP-GAP can goes forward and
replace the animation filters completely. The animation filter is a
great light-table tool, is pretty useful and we don't have something
similar in GAP. Is not the right moment to remove or replace the
animations filter, and maybe the right time to notice that the
animation is a real function of GIMP and assume this as part of the
product vision.

Cheers

--
Daniel Pinheiro Lima
http://blogdooswaldo.blogspot.com/
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Sent: 2010-10-04 10:24:24 UTC (over 1 year ago)

From: Jim Michaels

Wish: A better animation system inside GIMP

permalink

in GAP I would like to see
- repaired .APNG support (import and export)
- .MNG (import and export)
- numbered .BMP's as frames (used in a number of video frame conversion
programs) (import and export)
- .AVI (import and export, but you can limit the kinds of video formats you want
to support, since there are MANY)
- .flv (import and export) (I think it already does this)
- .swf (import and export)

and if someone really feels like doing it, .mpg and .vp8 files and some of the
modern formats.  I believe mplayer can read a lot of these formats, and what
mplayer does not read, ffmpeg does. ffmpeg even does AVI[MJPEG] which is what my
camera puts out.

------------
Jim Michaels
jmichae3@yahoo.com
JimM@JimsComputerRepairandWebDesign.com
http://JimsComputerRepairandWebDesign.com
http://JesusnJim.com (my personal site, has software)
http://DoLifeComputers.JesusnJim.com (group which I lead)
---
Computer memory/disk size measurements:
[KB KiB] [MB MiB] [GB GiB] [TB TiB]
[10^3B=1000B=1KB][10^6B=1000000B=1MB][10^9B=1000000000B=1GB][10^12B=1000000000000B=1TB]

[2^10B=1024B=1KiB][2^20B=1048576B=1MiB][2^30B=1073741824B=1GiB][2^40B=1099511627776B=1TiB]

Note: disk size is measured in MB, GB, or TB, not in MiB, GiB, or TiB.  computer
memory (RAM) is measured in MiB and GiB.

________________________________
From: Olivier
To: LightningIsMyName
Cc: gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu
Sent: Sun, August 29, 2010 1:37:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] Wish: A better animation system inside GIMP

2010/8/29 LightningIsMyName

Hello,
>
>Forgot to mention that it would also require to change most animation
>scripts and GAP...
>
>
>On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 10:15 AM, Olivier wrote:
>> You seem to be interested only in animated GIF?
>>
>> Even in this case, are you aware of the GIMP Animation Package?
>>
>> Olivier Lecarme
>
>First of all, yes - I am aware of GAP and I used it several times
>(although I'm still not completely familiar with it).
>
>Still, abusing layer names must stop and this is my main request - and
>in order to stop this we must introduce a very simple animation editor
>(since we have many animation scripts and it should be possible to
>edit their result). GAP is very good and complicated, and I'm
>referring to something much simpler only to edit the frame
>duration/disposal (instead of the ugly layer name hack) - nothing
>more.
>
>
GAP is not very complicated, simply it is not well described.

If you are interested in multi-layer animations, the duration and mode of layers
is obviously a layer property. Why not use the layer name for this? It is
available and not very useful for anything else in this precise case.

--
Olivier Lecarme

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Sent: 2010-10-04 12:24:53 UTC (over 1 year ago)

From: Øyvind Kolås

Wish: A better animation system inside GIMP

permalink

On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 9:24 AM, Jim Michaels wrote:
> in GAP I would like to see
> - repaired .APNG support (import and export)
> - .MNG (import and export)
> - numbered .BMP's as frames (used in a number of video frame conversion
> programs) (import and export)
> - .AVI (import and export, but you can limit the kinds of video formats you
> want to support, since there are MANY)
> - .flv (import and export) (I think it already does this)
> - .swf (import and export)
>
> and if someone really feels like doing it, .mpg and .vp8 files and some of
> the modern formats.  I believe mplayer can read a lot of these formats, and
> what mplayer does not read, ffmpeg does. ffmpeg even does AVI[MJPEG] which
> is what my camera puts out.

GEGL being a graph based image processing/compositing framework is
lends itself well for building animation based systems as well as
static image things like GIMP. One of the projects that I abandoned
development of and folded into GEGL when GEGL development was
restarted some years back was a combined video sequencing/compositing
system. Some of the examples in the GEGL source tree are also simple
animations driven from C or ruby/python.

GEGL has input nodes and output nodes built on top of the ffmpeg
libraries (quite probably bitrotted, but salvagable). Perhaps similar
nodes should be created along the same pattern as well that use
GStreamer instead.

/Øyvind K.

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