Sent: 2010-05-27 09:13:28 UTC (over 1 year ago)

From: Martin Nordholts

Why artificially constrain toolbox window size?

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Hi,

Right now, we put an artificial constraint on the toolbox dock window to
make it resizeable only in tool button sized increments. If there is a
dockable dialog present, the constraint is only on the width. If there
are no dockables, the constraint is both on the width and the height.

The GtkToolPalette widget that hosts the buttons is able to nicely
distribute available space among the buttons, so I would like to remove
the resize constraint and make the toolbox dock window freely
resizeable. The attached patch does that.

Are there any important use cases or interaction design aspects I'm not
thinking about here?

/ Martin

--

My GIMP Blog:
http://www.chromecode.com/
"GIMP 2.8 development still under control"

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Sent: 2010-05-27 09:36:13 UTC (over 1 year ago)

From: Thorsten Wilms

Why artificially constrain toolbox window size?

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On Thu, 2010-05-27 at 09:18 +0200, Martin Nordholts wrote:

> The GtkToolPalette widget that hosts the buttons is able to nicely
> distribute available space among the buttons, so I would like to remove
> the resize constraint and make the toolbox dock window freely
> resizeable. The attached patch does that.

Do the buttons still flow/wrap then, or does this lead to a fixed n rows
and m columns?

> Are there any important use cases or interaction design aspects I'm not
> thinking about here?

I assume the icons force a minimum button size?

There *might* be some advantage to fix sized buttons regarding a
training effect.

At some point the icons will looks strange, surrounded by too much empty
space, but that's not really an issue as the user can keep it out of the
silly range easily.

--
Thorsten Wilms

thorwil's design for free software:
http://thorwil.wordpress.com/

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Sent: 2010-05-27 18:47:24 UTC (over 1 year ago)

From: Martin Nordholts

Why artificially constrain toolbox window size?

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On 05/27/2010 09:36 AM, Thorsten Wilms wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-05-27 at 09:18 +0200, Martin Nordholts wrote:
>
>> The GtkToolPalette widget that hosts the buttons is able to nicely
>> distribute available space among the buttons, so I would like to remove
>> the resize constraint and make the toolbox dock window freely
>> resizeable. The attached patch does that.
>
> Do the buttons still flow/wrap then, or does this lead to a fixed n rows
> and m columns?

The buttons still flow/wrap.

>> Are there any important use cases or interaction design aspects I'm not
>> thinking about here?
>
> I assume the icons force a minimum button size?
>
> There *might* be some advantage to fix sized buttons regarding a
> training effect.
>
> At some point the icons will looks strange, surrounded by too much empty
> space, but that's not really an issue as the user can keep it out of the
> silly range easily.

It looks slightly strange when you resize the window, because the
buttons jump around more than usual. You do indeed get pretty severe
button spacing for certain widths:

http://www.chromecode.com/temp/button-spacing.png

but I mean, so what? If a user panics, he can just make the window
slightly bigger/smaller. Being able to adjust the window freely is far
more important in my opinion.

/ Martin

--

My GIMP Blog:
http://www.chromecode.com/
"GIMP 2.8 development still under control"
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Sent: 2010-05-27 18:48:07 UTC (over 1 year ago)

From: Michael Natterer

Why artificially constrain toolbox window size?

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On Thu, 2010-05-27 at 09:18 +0200, Martin Nordholts wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Right now, we put an artificial constraint on the toolbox dock window to
> make it resizeable only in tool button sized increments. If there is a
> dockable dialog present, the constraint is only on the width. If there
> are no dockables, the constraint is both on the width and the height.
>
> The GtkToolPalette widget that hosts the buttons is able to nicely
> distribute available space among the buttons, so I would like to remove
> the resize constraint and make the toolbox dock window freely
> resizeable. The attached patch does that.
>
> Are there any important use cases or interaction design aspects I'm not
> thinking about here?

Yes, the concern is that tool buttons *do* have a fixed size, and I
really don't think we should scale them. The interface is IMHO
better with the resize steps. There is no reason to have non-square
buttons, because it doesn't exactly look good or professional.

--mitch

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Sent: 2010-05-28 04:40:10 UTC (over 1 year ago)

From: Christopher Curtis

Why artificially constrain toolbox window size?

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On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 12:48 PM, Michael Natterer wrote:

> On Thu, 2010-05-27 at 09:18 +0200, Martin Nordholts wrote:
> >
> > The GtkToolPalette widget that hosts the buttons is able to nicely
> > distribute available space among the buttons, so I would like to remove
> > the resize constraint and make the toolbox dock window freely
> > resizeable. The attached patch does that.
>
> Yes, the concern is that tool buttons *do* have a fixed size, and I
> really don't think we should scale them. The interface is IMHO
> better with the resize steps. There is no reason to have non-square
> buttons, because it doesn't exactly look good or professional.
>

By looking at the screenshot I don't think this is true; to the contrary, I
like the look with more space around the buttons, and expect that I would
find it easier to use because it's (a) a bigger target, but more
importantly, (b) I find it a challenge sometimes to find a tool in the newer
versions because many of them tend to blend together for me. I think more
spacing like this makes them more distinct and easier to discern.

Chris

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Sent: 2010-05-28 08:18:43 UTC (over 1 year ago)

From: Martin Nordholts

Why artificially constrain toolbox window size?

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On 05/27/2010 06:48 PM, Michael Natterer wrote:
> Yes, the concern is that tool buttons *do* have a fixed size, and I
> really don't think we should scale them. The interface is IMHO
> better with the resize steps. There is no reason to have non-square
> buttons, because it doesn't exactly look good or professional.
>
> --mitch

I have to admit rectangular buttons doesn't look very pretty. So how
about vertically centering the toolbox? Mockup, where left is "worst
case" and the right one is "one pixel extra wide":

http://files.chromecode.com/temp/button-spacing-collected.png

We get the best of both worlds:

* Ability to pixel perfectly adapt the toolbox to any windowing setup
and an interface with a smoother feel to it
* Always square and nice-looking and compact tool buttons

We also get rid of the quite ugly flicker when inter-button spacing is
adjusted as the toolbox window is resized. And again, if a user thinks
the spacing around the toolbox is butt-ugly and can't stand it, he can
just decrease the toolbox width.

/ Martin

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Sent: 2010-05-28 16:07:50 UTC (over 1 year ago)

From: Michael Natterer

Why artificially constrain toolbox window size?

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On Fri, 2010-05-28 at 08:23 +0200, Martin Nordholts wrote:
> On 05/27/2010 06:48 PM, Michael Natterer wrote:
> > Yes, the concern is that tool buttons *do* have a fixed size, and I
> > really don't think we should scale them. The interface is IMHO
> > better with the resize steps. There is no reason to have non-square
> > buttons, because it doesn't exactly look good or professional.
> >
> > --mitch
>
> I have to admit rectangular buttons doesn't look very pretty. So how
> about vertically centering the toolbox? Mockup, where left is "worst
> case" and the right one is "one pixel extra wide":
>
> http://files.chromecode.com/temp/button-spacing-collected.png
>
> We get the best of both worlds:
>
> * Ability to pixel perfectly adapt the toolbox to any windowing setup
> and an interface with a smoother feel to it
> * Always square and nice-looking and compact tool buttons

I'm sorry but I absolutely don't see how the minor benefit of
resizing the toolbox freely outweights the advantage of *always*
having a nicely laid out toolbox.

I'm all for code simplification and freely configurable windows,
but this feels like overdoing it.

--mitch

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