Modifier key to create new layer from floating selection

Hi,

in case it's not too late (meaning "a brand-new floating selection replacement
is to be implemented soon"), I have a small proposal to make the current
behaviour a bit more user-friendly:

While working on a floating selection, clicking outside the floating selection
with a modifier key pressed ("Alt" seems to be free for that at the moment), a
new layer should be created in the same way as pressing the "new layer" button
in the layers dialog.

Current status:
When the mouse is outside the floating selection, a single click will anchor
the floating selection to its current "parent" layer. This behaviour is also
announced in the status bar.

Rationale:
Creating a new layer from a floating selection is needed about as often as
anchoring it (if not more often). Thus a handy way to do this without moving
the mouse across the desktop should be provided. There seems to be a default
shortcut for this already (Ctrl+Shit+N), but esp. for tablet users a single
click would be faster. Alt+click doesn't seem to be used for anything special
at the moment yet.

What do you think?
Daniel

Hi,

On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 6:41 AM, Daniel Hornung <daniel.hornung@gmx.de> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> in case it's not too late (meaning "a brand-new floating selection replacement
> is to be implemented soon"), I have a small proposal to make the current
> behaviour a bit more user-friendly:
>
> While working on a floating selection, clicking outside the floating selection
> with a modifier key pressed ("Alt" seems to be free for that at the moment), a
> new layer should be created in the same way as pressing the "new layer" button
> in the layers dialog.
>
> Current status:
> When the mouse is outside the floating selection, a single click will anchor
> the floating selection to its current "parent" layer. This behaviour is also
> announced in the status bar.
>
> Rationale:
> Creating a new layer from a floating selection is needed about as often as
> anchoring it (if not more often). Thus a handy way to do this without moving
> the mouse across the desktop should be provided. There seems to be a default
> shortcut for this already (Ctrl+Shit+N), but esp. for tablet users a single
> click would be faster. Alt+click doesn't seem to be used for anything special
> at the moment yet.
>
> What do you think?
This is usually effectively the same as pasting (ctrl+V for most
people, Insert for me). Is creating a floating selection that does not
match the clipboard contents a common use case, or do we just need to
document this behaviour better?


David

On Thursday 20 November 2008, David Gowers wrote:
>
> This is usually effectively the same as pasting (ctrl+V for most
> people, Insert for me). Is creating a floating selection that does not
> match the clipboard contents a common use case, or do we just need to
> document this behaviour better?

Sorry, I think there's a misunderstanding here:

I proposed a mouse-driven way to create a new layer from an existing floating
selection. (And not to paste the current (floating) selection into the
respective layer.)


And yes, that Ctrl-V anchors a copy of the current floating selection was new
to me and probably should be better documented. Plus the "Edit" menu entry
still says "Paste Ctrl+V" while "Paste Into" (which does the same) does not
have a shortcut listed.

Btw, http://docs.gimp.org/en/gimp-selection-float.html still seems to be from
2.4 times (or older), I'll crosspost this fact to the gimp-docs mailing list
as well.

Daniel

Hi,

On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 2:34 AM, Daniel Hornung <daniel.hornung@gmx.de> wrote:
> On Thursday 20 November 2008, David Gowers wrote:
>>
>> This is usually effectively the same as pasting (ctrl+V for most
>> people, Insert for me). Is creating a floating selection that does not
>> match the clipboard contents a common use case, or do we just need to
>> document this behaviour better?
>
> Sorry, I think there's a misunderstanding here:
>
> I proposed a mouse-driven way to create a new layer from an existing floating
> selection. (And not to paste the current (floating) selection into the
Okay then, 'New layer' button does this (unless you also want to keep
the floating layer around -- that can be done too with a bit of
scripting). There is also a 'new layer' action available that you can
bind a key to, that does the same thing.

Kind of hinted at here:
http://docs.gimp.org/en/gimp-using-layers.html

being more explicit is better though.

(the above page may also be out of date -- GIMP now preserves the
exact shape of the clipboard rather than autocropping to hold the
content in a minimal rectangle)


> respective layer.)
>
>
> And yes, that Ctrl-V anchors a copy of the current floating selection was new
> to me and probably should be better documented. Plus the "Edit" menu entry
To be exact, it anchors any current floating selection before creating
a new floating selection.


> still says "Paste Ctrl+V" while "Paste Into" (which does the same) does not
> have a shortcut listed.
Paste Into is markedly different from Paste.

Try this:

1. Open an image.
2. Edit->Copy
3. Make a circular selection
4. Edit->Paste Into

Essentially, 'Paste into' uses the selection mask to mask out parts of
the selection, whereas 'Paste' clears the selection beforehand.

http://docs.gimp.org/en/gimp-edit-paste-into.html

With 'Paste into' it's possible to quickly paste one or more things
into a limited area.
(I personally favor layer masking for this; however for speed of use,
Paste Into is superior.)


>
> Btw, http://docs.gimp.org/en/gimp-selection-float.html still seems to be from
> 2.4 times (or older), I'll crosspost this fact to the gimp-docs mailing list
> as well.
Older for sure :) Just plain confusing.
I think a crossreference to
http://docs.gimp.org/en/gimp-using-selections.html#gimp-using-selections-moving
is also a good thing to include in the floating-selections page.

(I'm pretty sure we are trying to get rid of floating selections, but
I suspect we will only be free to find an adequate alternative when
the projection system is completely GEGLized.

David

On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 6:35 AM, David Gowers <00ai99@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 2:34 AM, Daniel Hornung <daniel.hornung@gmx.de> wrote:
>> On Thursday 20 November 2008, David Gowers wrote:
>>>
>>> This is usually effectively the same as pasting (ctrl+V for most
>>> people, Insert for me). Is creating a floating selection that does not
>>> match the clipboard contents a common use case, or do we just need to
>>> document this behaviour better?
>>
>> Sorry, I think there's a misunderstanding here:
>>
>> I proposed a mouse-driven way to create a new layer from an existing floating
>> selection. (And not to paste the current (floating) selection into the
> Okay then, 'New layer' button does this (unless you also want to keep
> the floating layer around -- that can be done too with a bit of
> scripting). There is also a 'new layer' action available that you can
> bind a key to, that does the same thing.

Oops, I see you originally suggested modifier-clicking to create a new layer.
Sorry, I do not agree with that proposition, it seems too fiddly to me
-- esp. because there is no reliably free modifier key. (Alt is only
unused by paint, transform (and color?) tools; All selection tools use
Alt.)

Now if we could bind actions to mouse gestures, this kind of thing
would come up less often I think.

However, are you aware you could bind Alt+scrollwheel-up to new-layer
to achieve a very similar result?
This works properly with all tools, too, since it is genuinely non-conflicting.

David

On Thursday 20 November 2008, David Gowers wrote:
> Oops, I see you originally suggested modifier-clicking to create a new
> layer. Sorry, I do not agree with that proposition, it seems too fiddly to
> me -- esp. because there is no reliably free modifier key. (Alt is only
> unused by paint, transform (and color?) tools; All selection tools use
> Alt.)

The same holds for no modifier key at the moment (mouse without any keys is
used already... in certain ways), I don't know if that's intentional
behaviour though.

A little demo:
1) Copy&paste a selection to create a floating selection ('F').
2a) Single-click outside the float F to anchor it.
- undo to go back one step -
2b) Drag outside the float: A new selection ('S') will be created to define
where the floating layer F shall be applicable.

Now, my proposal to handle the Alt key from this situation on:
3a) Alt+click creates a new "real" layer (single-click is equivalent to 2a).
3b) Alt+drag performs the selection tool's "Alt" behvaiour, as is currently
indicated in the status bar: "Click-Drag to move the selection mask"
(click-drag is equivalent to 2b).

Other key events (like scroll buttons, as you suggested) could be bound to
that as well, of course.

I am aware this would mean further overloading of tools, so more I welcome
more comments and discussion.

Daniel